Project My Fizzer

GreyImport · Apr 17, 2015

I have had the whole clutch out and back in and so has @Murdo
I checked the inside of the cover and all the teeth etc and found nothing

The sound resonates thru the whole motor kinda thing but with the screwdriver to ear method it sounds like the water pump area

The new clutch had 2 extra springs but same number of plates

After Dr Murdo noticed the sidestand being down which of course was causing the bike to cut out when put into gear , the clutch worked fine , gear changes are fine

Parts of the old clutch were used to create a locking tool

maelstrom · Apr 17, 2015

Your oil pump/water pump drive shaft is firmly located?
It appears to be held in place by a circlip on the inside of the right hand crankcase.

Murdo · Apr 18, 2015

Oil pump drive and clutch all look fine.
The tapping noise is worse around the water pump/starter area, but sounds throughout the engine. Be interesting to find out what the noise is from.

Linkin · Apr 18, 2015

Impeller broke off the shaft? Gasket crapped itself and ruined a bearing?

maelstrom · Apr 18, 2015

Speaking of horrible noises, the 400s suffer from big-end failures on the outer cylinders and this is attributed to lack of feed caused by a restriction.

This popular modification is sourced from BDK who make crazy powerful FZR400s
http://www.bdkraceeng.co.uk/Bike1.html

"If you measure csa(cross sectional area) of oil loss at rod ie:area of pin minus area of rod inc shells, times 2 for both sides . Plus oil loss for outer main brg(since these are fed together). This is the total area for oil loss assuming the crank is not moving(no centrifugal pull). A rule of thumb is that the supply csa is at least a third larger than the loss csa. This also assumes no 90 degree bends etc. If you look at the oil feed in the btm case it has an arduous path to the outer main and consequently the big end. The oil rises in a 5mm drilling (where the restrictor jets are) and then horizontally in a 6mm hole and then up again at 6mm to the outer big end. The 5mm drilling has to be because they wanted to put a M6 thread in it for the jet. Anyway, take the 5mm hole out to 6mm and then use a thread repair, Time sert or Helicoil, to restore the thread for the oil jet. The reason the main is OK is because it always has sufficient oil and little centrifugal force, however the big end throws the oil away at a considerable rate .Remove more than you are putting in and bang! I have seen hundreds of FZR's with outer b.ends gone. All modified as above sorted them out without fail. "

I do not know if the 250 has the same issue but it would be worth checking if anyone takes their engine apart.

I plan to do mine when I rebuild the engine but I want to get the bike finished first. As for oil, I will use Mobil 1 or Motul synthetic. Given the rpm these things spin at it is cheap insurance I think.
cheers
Blair

maelstrom · Apr 18, 2015

Murdo said: ↑

Risky is offering $50 + carton of beer.
Click to expand...

Risky always offers $50 and a carton of beer

mboddy · Apr 19, 2015

Stick an RZ350 engine in it.

risky · Apr 21, 2015

i will up it to 150 and a carton.

Linkin · Apr 24, 2015

Brian, can I get your FZR wheels? They're nicer than mine

GreyImport · Apr 24, 2015

The Fizz will return .... after a stint in the naughty corner

Linkin · Apr 24, 2015

So putting it away, come back to it later, and hope the noise is gone?

On a serious note though, is the noise still there if you pull the clutch in?

risky · Apr 24, 2015

the folding green is still in my pocket.

GreyImport · Apr 24, 2015

Noise is constant
Blair suggested a gearbox bearing .... that would be my choice also
I was bashing and belting the thing in and out of gear while doing the clutch so I could have finished off something that was coming anyway
Theres a knock in 3rd like a chipped or broken gear tooth .... it was there when I bought it..... so who knows wat else has been well used and abused in that area
I have the spare gears in the spare motor to go in

After the clutch was done , it was going to be on with the fairing, fine tune the carbs and go riding

I have zero enthusiasm to pull off everything and pull engines apart as I have spent a zillion hours on it already.

risky said: ↑

the folding green is still in my pocket.
Click to expand...

You can have the bike for $100 .... plus $3000 for the hours Ive worked on it

Joker · Apr 24, 2015

If bushings are worn... button knock in the clutch?

risky · Apr 24, 2015

will give the 100 and the rest was a labour of love.

Damus · Apr 27, 2015

I'm no expert but the compression ratio in the FZR is kind of high at 12:1, if your getting engine knocking its probably a bad CDI component???

Linkin · Jun 24, 2015

Exploded view of crankshaft. Part #2 appears to be a bearing from your photo with the clutch basket off. CMSNL says it is an oil seal... I checked and the conrod bearings, crankshaft bearings, and oil seals/this bearing are not available Will have to try JP-Parts and the local bearing shops... or pull apart the bottom end of your spare engine for the bearings if it become desperate.

Of course... we should see if the crank is scored and needs a regrind before ordering parts...

Total of 8 conrod bearings and 12 crankshaft bearings according to the parts book.

Looking on youtube, conrod bearing failures manifest themselves as knocking above idle speed (about 2,500RPM on a car engine) and vertical free play in the rod, if you take the head off.

Big end bearing failure noise is constant, even at idle speeds... based off lots of dead Subaru engines.

Seems to be a consensus that oil in the coolant AKA bad head gasket causes the bearings to **** themselves...

Joker · Jun 24, 2015

I don't think you can use worn in bearings from another engine/crank, you'd probably be asking for problems there. I'd switch the bottom end from the other engine onto it instead.

I think you're talking about the crank locator bearings (3) and the big end (conrod) (11) bearings. If you've got knock you'd only need to do the 8 conrod bearings, pretty simple when you tear it down. It may be a preference to do the locator bearings if you can but you may be able to get away without doing it if they're not damaged. Save some hassle anyway, just remember how they're worn in (ie what order they were in).

I've only ever done one big end on a car and it's a very annoying job...