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Info Court case worth following - Helmet cam

Discussion in 'Licence - Rego - Insurance - Law - Rider Training' started by jazzhunt, Sep 16, 2015.

  1. jazzhunt

    jazzhunt Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  2. XCite Bikes

    XCite Bikes Parts and Accessories Staff Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Smart move from Maurice Blackburn. Doing this one case pro bono means spreading their name among the motorbike riders community, people that often need the help of solicitors.

    Is it still that case where the police dropped the charges about a month ago? Someone got a fine, appealed, and before going to court the police dropped charges.
     
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  3. pkay

    pkay Junk Accumulator

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    It says that it is OK to wear a go-pro on the roads in Qld - I understood it wasn't?
     
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  4. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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  5. cantafforda600

    cantafforda600 can actually afford a 600 Premium Member

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    Is that so you can't film evidence of them making up fines and harassing you?
     
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  6. Willrcr15

    Willrcr15 Well-Known Member

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    Thats the one ! It's rules for them & the law for us.
    I rode beside a marked car from Charlestown to Merewether with a female officer in uniform on the phone in heavy traffic, stop & go & she didn't give a ****.
    & while I'm going off, 3 weeks ago we were caught up to by 3 black Landcruisers between Jindabyne & Cooma, drug squad that had been up to the ski fields for a waste of time, show of arms at our expense. I was doiung a safe 105 - 107 o cruise control driving a 6 litre V8 & they caught up to me & a line of traffic we were at the rear of at a rate of knots, the lead idiot started overtaking car by car like there was no tomorrow & then the other 2 carried on the same & went around me across double lines & on a blind bend, I couldn't believe it, we got into Cooma & the lead idiots pulled up at the first motel causing the tail idiot cop to almost tip it over suddenly turning into the motel drive & had to run down the driveway to pull up. I almost pulled over to give them a blast but thought better of it. Who hands out the tickets to those bastards ? I should have reported it when I got home but it would just have been a waste of my valuable time.
     
  7. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Unfortunately, we lost the helmet camera case today. The charge was found to be proven, with the fine reduced and no conviction recorded.

    Maurice Blackburn Lawy...er Malcolm Cumming said outside court:

    "This result is a disappointing outcome for riders and for motorcycle safety.

    Riders tell us they wear helmet cameras to improve their safety while on the roads, and that drivers and other road users show more care when there is a camera in use.

    And if there is a road accident or collision, helmet camera footage is among the best evidence you can get.

    Riders should not be penalised for trying to improve the safety of their riding.

    The law needs to catch up with common practice.

    Thanks to everyone who has expressed their support for this cause on the SMIDSY Facebook page.

    Helmet laws across Australia are generally a dogs breakfast. We continue to call for urgent reform in the law to fix the ambiguity around compliance of helmets with Australian Standards.

    In Queensland and South Australia, the road rules specify that when compliance with an Australian Standard is required, then there is compliance once and for all if a product complies at manufacture.

    We are encouraging the Victorian Government to introduce a similar law to clarify that helmets only need to comply once with the Australian Standards, and this is at the point of manufacture. In other words, once a helmet is approved, it cannot become unapproved.

    We will continue to push for standardised national helmet laws that embrace new technology and rider safety."
     
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  8. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Quoted from FB

    Here is more information regarding yesterdays court case regarding a gopro camera mounted to a helmet. If you are going to pass comment please read the whole thing first is there is a fair bit of info here.

    Okay. Firstly, the case that was found proven today at Frankston Magistrates' Court was determined on the basis that wearing a helmet that doesn't comply with AS/NZS 1678 makes you guilty of offence of failing to wear an approved helmet.

    One of the requirements of AS/NZS 1678 is that there can be no external rigid protrusions greater than 5mm. In this case, the device in question was a GoPro, the nature of the mounts for that particular type of device includes a post/ stem that extends perpendicular from the base at length greater than 5mm (as opposed to a Contour or similar device where the fixed component doesn't protrude beyond 5mm). The rationale behind the relevant legislation & standard being that (in accordance with the philosophy of such high end manufacturers such as Arai) that a fixed rigid protrusion greater than 5mm creates a significant risk of causing injury to the cervical spine due to rotational force of such a protrusion catching & dragging in the event of a crash/slide event, or alternatively for a post mount like in the case of GoPro potentially compromising the integrity of the shell & causing an intracranial injury ala Schumacher.

    Regarding the prosecution of this case by Vicpol, the offence was detected by a member of the HWP who issued an infringement which was then referred to court by the accused. A brief of evidence was then compiled & forwarded to the Prosecutions Division.

    Prosecutions then evaluate whether or not there is sufficient evidence to have the matter proven beyond reasonable doubt & if it is the public interest to proceed to prosecute. In the case it was firstly determined that there was at law a case to answer, but secondly that as it was considered a technical & therefore relatively minor breach of legislation, that it is was appropriate for the matter to be found proven & dismissed with no penalty by the court under s.76 of the Sentencing Act. This was rejected by the accused's legal reps Maurice Blackburn, as was a later offer to have the matter withdrawn with no costs being sought against the prosecution on the basis of it not bring in the public interest to have the matter proceed to contest once the legal position, as stated by the prosecution, had been sufficiently publicised. So in short they offered to drop the fine but the defendant and lawyers wanted their day in court (personally I would have taken that win and gone home happy).

    Therefore the matter ran on it's merits & was found proven, confirming the stance taken in this case regarding the legality of that particular type of device (& in particular it's mounting system).

    The bottom line in the wash up of today's events is therefore as such:
    It's legal to mount a camera to your bike.
    It's legal to body wear a GoPro or similar device or similar if you are prepared to accept the risk of injury that attaches to having solid objects on or about your body when riding.
    However, if you choose to RIGIDLY mount any device to your helmet via screws, pins, adhesives or similar, any FIXED & RIGID component of that device that is attached to your helmet cannot legally protrude beyond the OUTER shell of the helmet by greater than 5mm. (buy a contour roam or any camera that has a thin mount unlike the gopro)

    This is all about education / information & making sure the membership are appropriately advised in such a way to maximise enjoyment of our common interest while minimising risk (both physically & legally).
     
  9. cantafforda600

    cantafforda600 can actually afford a 600 Premium Member

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    Where are the studies that prove this utter bullshit?

    Nowhere I suppose

    I don't exactly think a sticky gopro mount would be strong enough to twist my head off my spine.
     
  10. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    I think the main point should be whether u compromise the integrity of the helmet by drilling holes in it or screwing into it as opposed to using an 'adhesive' ..... sticking on a cam mount would be no different than putting stickers on.

    If u are drilling or wateva into your helmet then it wont matter ...u obviously have no brain in your head to protect anyway.
     
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  11. Darren

    Darren Well-Known Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I have spoken to the QLD police a few weeks ago, and they have confirmed that as long as the integrity of the helmet is not compromised, helmet cams are legal in Queensland,
     
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  12. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    How do we get that in writing ?
     
  13. Darren

    Darren Well-Known Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    When I spoke to the Redcliffe Traffic branch, they said they would put in a request to the QPS media unit to put out an update on their facebook page... Still waiting though
     
  14. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    Ok, have perused the statements issued in this case in Victoria and have come to the conclusion that the point of contention has precious little to do with the Victorian Police issuing and infringement notice.
    This issue has everything to do with Australian Standards AS/NZS 1678 which clearly states no protrusions greater than 5mm.
    So did the Police do the wrong thing...NO, they upheld the standard, which is Law.
    The interesting comment from Qld police as posted by Darren is that it appears legal in Queensland to mount camera on a helmet but do they tell you that if the camera protrudes over 5mm it is in breach of AS/NZS 1678??? That's what I want to know.
    Feel certain we will hear more about this in the future, had it been me...would have taken the deal as offered and called it a day.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
  15. Darren

    Darren Well-Known Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Didn't say squat about that Phil. All they stressed was not to drill into the helmet itself!
     
  16. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    Think Grey answered that one, drill into helmet=no brains to protect ?????
     
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  17. Willrcr15

    Willrcr15 Well-Known Member

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    Are they booking pushbike riders too ?
    More of them using them than us.
     
  18. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    How correct you are :thumb_ups:
     
  19. KICKERMAN360

    KICKERMAN360 Well-Known Member

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    Just playing devil's advocate here, but I believe the FIM banned helmet cams in the MXGP because apparently it can compromise the helmet during a crash.

    I think helmet cams are nearly essential if you commute in dense traffic. But to people who want to record their rides you can always use a chest mount, or mount it directly to your bike. I know it perhaps doesn't record *everything* (like, where you point your head) but it avoids fines.

    In regards to the 5mm thing, I don't think the law about Australian Standards should apply to helmets only at the point of sale because what's the point if a consumer can then modify it later (not talking about simply attaching a helmet cam) and then still claim it as AS approved? I think there should be laws specifically allowing helmet cams as an improved safety measure, just like how dash cams are becoming recommended for other vehicles.
     
  20. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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