1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Help Yamaha Zeal - hesitation below 6000rpm

Discussion in 'Yamaha 250cc In-Line 4's' started by boganracing, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    Then you know what Im going to say next , dont you ? :D
     
    • Bummer Bummer x 1
  2. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    Trophy Points:
    898
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Panel Beater, Spray Painter, Custom Fabricator
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha's , 1990 FZR250R 3LN3 , 1986 XT250TS 57R , 1984 IT200L 43G, 1976 IT400C 510
    From what i've read with the additive's in 98, (friction modifier's, and detergent's etc) my engine is going to be internally cleaner than if i was running 91 and less friction make's gain's in power and efficiency too, plus there is less chance of detonation with 98 not burning as easy as 91.
    And with the FZR running 12/1 compression and revving to 18,000 i think they benefit from the 98, the FZR is more of a performance model than a CB250
    If the FZR are recommended to run 90/91 in Japan, that'd equal out to be about 95 here.
     
  3. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    I dont hold out that much respect for my flogged out motor .... maybe if I had a nice rebuilt one I would have a different approach.
     
  4. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    I have a feeling there is a whole thread dedicated to this, and several others... couldn't find it :(

    Higher octane may provide a little extra power and/or fuel efficiency or they may not. It doesn't matter much which you use if you don't mind paying for it and (whether real or placebo) there is some perceived benefit. "recommended 91" does not mean "only" it is a minimum standard not a maximum one. Higher octane levels should be fine.

    Prolonged ethanol mixed fuel would probably not be recommended for carburetors with rubber seals etc. I've run it on occasions when I felt like being cheap with no noticeable affect, but I haven't done it on a pre-1990 bike/car.
     
  5. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    3,237
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    Trophy Points:
    918
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Narrabeen, NSW Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR250 3LN1
    I find it curious that the change on Octane rating cured this misbehaviour - it sounds somewhat counter-intuitive...not saying it didn't happen and that the cause and effect wasn't correct, trying to get at the rationale for the conclusion...

    Interesting document on the different RON (Octane) fuels - there is a small difference in Stoichiometric ratios between the 91 & 93 -> 95 % 98 premium

    http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-country/en_au/media/fuel-news/fuel-octane-power.pdf

    Speculation - Now this would only have noticeable effect if the carbs/tuning was on the edge of the acceptable fuel ratio envelope with lower octane fuels and then falling outside this envelope with the change in the stoichiometric (air/fuel) ratio with higher octane fuels.

    From the above document
    91 & 93 yields max power @ 12.5:1 Air/Fuel ratio, 95 & 98 yields max power @ 12:1 Air/Fuel ratio, so higher octane fuels would run very slightly leaner in a carbed system running unchanged between both fuels.

    Given that emulsion tube wear tends to make the FZR/Zeal series run rich at lower revs, lets ignore that possibility as it's one more complication/variable.

    Hypothetically raising the needles one clip position should cure the midrange stumbles with premium fuel if it was running just a bit too lean and struggling.

    It would be an interesting test at the very least.

    Everything else RON related in engines needs ECU's which can alter fuelling/injector duration and spark timing changes, none of which happens on Fizzers and Zeals.

    I do remember the lowering of Australian RON fuel requirements and several decades ago there was the discussion which surrounded the whole normal versus premium fuels when they started appearing. At that time there was only one car which was capable of taking advantage of higher octane fuels - A Turbo Saab, which had an octane sensor and the capability to increase engine performance parameters to take advantage of increased ping/knock resistance...
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

    Messages:
    6,400
    Likes Received:
    4,788
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tamworth, NSW
    My Bike:
    1937 Royal Enfield 250, CF Moto 250 V5, Honda's XL250, CBR250, FT500 plus a few others.
    It all comes down to run what you and your machine are happy with, and let other people run what they want. :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    Yeh tend to agree with that statement.

    The theory is the theory but in practise there's a lot of variables that come into play as to whether or not you actually see the prescribed benefits. On the FZR250 I got 20km more out of a tank of 95 than 91 and all seemed to run OK. But no noticeable difference on the (fuel injected) 650.
     

Share This Page