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Help Oil leak from valve cover o-rings - ZXR250

Discussion in 'Kawasaki 250cc In-line 4's' started by edwardo, Jan 20, 2015.

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  1. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    Ugh when do the problems stop?!

    I fitted new valve cover o-rings to replace of the old decrepit ones. I used a tiny bit of RTV sealant to stick the rings in place and to give them a little bit of lube to squish when tightened down.

    Started up the bike and there was leaking from all of the spark plug tunnels onto the headers and making a mess. There are two sets of o-rings that could be the culprit, one set for the valve cover and one set for the cam shaft cap. I visually confirmed it to be the valve cover o-rings as I could see oil in the little recessed bit on the inside of the tunnel. If it was the cam cap o-rings, the oil would have had to come out then travel up the spark plug tunnel, not possible.

    Any who, pulled the cover off, cleaned up my o-rings, cleaned up the surfaces and slapped on more rtv to create a better seal. All seemed well and good. Ran fine with no leaks. That was a couple of days ago, today I had heaps of trouble starting the bike, I think there was water in the tank as it ran fine off an aux tank. After I had running it started leaking AGAIN from #1 cylinder, the others were fine I think.

    What am I doing wrong? I put on what I thought was a fair amount of it on all rings and it seemed to work bar one cylinder. Should I pull the cover and redo all rings with more RTV? Can I do the dodgy and just slap some on from inside the tunnel? I bought grey RTV sealant from supercheap as it was the only one there, it says its for high tension/high heat use and the label says can be used on valve covers. All four valve cover bolts were tightened to spec and then + some to try ad stem the leak.

    Any advice would be great guys, I think I'm just using the wrong stuff or just not doing it right.

    Cheers. Ed.
     
    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    My two cents.
    O-rings are not designed to have sealant applied to them. They seal when compressed by the correct amount and respond to increased pressure by distorting and creating a stronger seal. They should be free to move. The two issues are the sealing surfaces and the compression being applied. Are these original parts? There exists the possibility that the new parts may be too old. Nitrile, what they are made from, has a shelf life of about 15 years years (usually under ideal conditions).
    As for RTV, it is good for windows and not much else. Should not be used on engines.
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2015
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  3. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    I'm not too sure of the age of the o-rings, they were new parts and looked in good condition. I put the RTV on as I saw it on lots of DIYs on youtube and other forums. I originally wasn't going to use any but they amount of oil leaking worried me. The surfaces were cleaned and in good condition. I used a soft wire brush to get the old sealant off, it didn't appear to damage or remove any metal material from the cover.

    Should I start again and remove all RTV?

    Thanks for the reply man, appreciated.
     
    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  4. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Are u torqueing it down correctly?
     
    GreyImport, Jan 20, 2015
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  5. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Is there anything that would hinder the part from being tightened correctly? Yes, I would remove all sealant.
    The alternative would be to use an o-ring with a thicker cross section. They are quite cheap and can be obtained from your local bearing supplier. Just take a sample and ask them for something a little (as in 0.1 - 0.2mm) thicker. No harm in trying.
    cheers
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2015
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  6. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    I torqued to spec and then torqued over spec to try and them to seal.

    Not that I can think of, everything bolted down well with no issues but yeah just kept leaking.

    Good idea, I'll take them to a bearing place and try and get thicker ones.

    Cheers for the advice.
     
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    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  7. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Which parts are you referring to in this image?
    [​IMG]
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2015
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  8. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    92055, if thats the o-ring that goes between the valve cover and cam cap. Think I got the parts from partzilla
     
    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  9. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Ok, I do not know how it all assembles, but looking at the image it appears that the small seals rely on the large cover to cylinder head seal, 11009, to determine their compression. In other words if you removed the large seal altogether, the 92055 and 92055A parts would not be compressed. Is that correct? If so then it may be that the large sealing rubber has lost so much of its original thickness that the other parts are leaking.
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2015
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  10. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    That sounds pretty reasonable as I had to reuse my old 11009 gasket, bought a new one labelled as a 'zr balius' gasket and thought I'd be good. Apparently not.

    Although I would have thought that if the main gasket got thinner, the o-rings would take more of the compression. Worth a shot I suppose, just gotta find one ha.



    DSC_0454.JPG
     
    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  11. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    I am just going by the 92002, shoulder bolts. If the large seal were 30mm thick, how much pressure would it take for the shoulder bolts to bottom? And, vice-versa, with no large gasket fitted, the shoulder bolts would not compress anything, or so it appears to me from the picture.
    That rocker cover gasket is way simpler than the Fizzer ones. I may be able to get them made.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2015
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  12. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    Ah yeah I kinda see what you mean now, the shoulder bolts go to a certain depth and if the main gasket is thinner than that depth there'd be no compression. Gotcha. My valve cover gasket is old AF.

    I'll probably get flamed for this but I wonder if there's any way to achieve more height on the main gasket, ie RTV haha the stuff you hate lol.

    It's just I am constantly super poor and can't afford brand new parts and all that.
     
    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  13. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    • Like Like x 1
    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  14. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    "RTV haha" :minigun:
    You are not going to be able to build up the compressed thickness using RTV unless you put so much of it in there that huge globs of it get into your oilways and destroy your engine.

    I think you might get the new part cheaper from Hirochi in Japan and their shipping is also cheaper.
    Found http://translate.google.co.th/trans...hoo.co.jp/hirochi/11009-1779.html&prev=search
    I am going to buy one too, can be a project for this year, make ZXR250 cam cover seals :)
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2015
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  15. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    kiffsta, Jan 20, 2015
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  16. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Ok so now that you have sizes, you can get Metric in 28.0 x 2.0 or you could try 28.0 x 2.50
    The latter might just be too thick.
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2015
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  17. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    From memory, I think I got the 27.7mm by 1.9mm cross section. From partzilla too. I shouldn't need new ones if I get a new valve cover gasket right? That new gasket should technically work with the rings I have now..
     
    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  18. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Well now that I see all of the parts, thanks to Kiffsta. The shoulder bolts appear to hold the rocker cover in position according to their length, washer width etc, PLUS the 92055A, which I assume is rubber. Now as 92055A loses thickness from age, the rocker cover will lose compression against both the large seal and the four o-rings that seal the spark plugs, this is because the shoulder bolts do not move. Just imagine you assembled it without the 92055A rubbers and you will see what I mean. So the problem is most likely the 92055A but best to fit a large seal too as they are all rotten.
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2015
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  19. edwardo

    edwardo Well-Known Member Contributing Member

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    Yeah I understand now, the shoulder bolts go in only a certain distance, irrespective of if there's a thick or thin gasket there. Thin gasket = no compression = no seal.

    Could do a dodgy and try and pack a washer under the shoulder bolts to add more tension.... #dodgy #notamechanic
     
    edwardo, Jan 20, 2015
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  20. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Yes, dodgy could be a good test. Use thin washers, you do not want to crack the rocker cover. Maybe just make some thin rubber ones.
     
    maelstrom, Jan 21, 2015
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