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Project Joker's Angry Fizzer 400

Discussion in 'Other Projects - Other Bikes (non 250's)' started by Joker, Nov 4, 2016.

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  1. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Yes, yes it is. Head should come off tonight :(

    Only sad faces because I don't want to take the damned thing off!

    I also think I'm gonna wind the torque wrench back to 9.8nM so I avoid this issue again...
     
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    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
    Joker, Nov 29, 2016
    #41
  2. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    So today I bit the bullet and pulled off the head...

    15219624_10157809642275716_5502235091468517531_n.jpg

    I'd say the goop was intended to reuse the head gasket. Don't know why you'd do that when you can still get them for under $100...

    15241751_10157809642255716_4705528383177793653_n.jpg

    Definitely a clean up in order to remove the gunk, yuck.

    15267842_10157809642230716_8638503639105125273_n.jpg

    The clearance was about 10mm but it allowed me to get the head off without removing the engine from the bike which I am happy about.

    15284024_10157809642060716_1984945460767379816_n.jpg

    The "50" intrigues me. I wonder if it's been bored out to 0.50 oversize. My unworthy caliper is not going to give me a precise enough measurement so I suppose I won't solve that mystery in a hurrry.

    15319213_10157809642215716_7599186335485345171_n.jpg

    The gunk is through everything... EVERYTHING. Oh well, suppose nothing else better to do tonight so the clean up begins. Had a good look in the head and there's 3 or 4 helicoils in the holes (couldn't see clearly while it was on the engine) so I'm gonna get the guy to ensure all of them are good. Whoever did them did them really badly. I also noticed the head wasn't torqued down very tight in a couple locations so I might get him to skim the underside to ensure it's flat when i replace the head gasket.
     
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    Joker, Dec 3, 2016
    #42
  3. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    By the look of those pistons and the gunk around the base I would be extending the overhaul with the barrels off ... especially going by the standard of work found so far
     
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    GreyImport, Dec 3, 2016
    #43
  4. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Pull the barrels off and check the o-rings underneath them. On my 250 one was snapped. This causes coolant to leak into the oil which destroys the lubrcation properties of the oil in a short amount of time.
     
    Linkin, Dec 3, 2016
    #44
  5. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    15253643_10157810017980716_1554644109225652400_n.jpg

    Dirty. That was fun "not". Looking a bit more respectable now though...

    15284193_10157810017920716_1340824359210328020_n.jpg 15337581_10157810017630716_7094812762257077385_n.jpg

    don't know about ripping it down further I'm not overly keen to keep digging... will think about it.

    Also, how the heck do you fill your spark plug cavities with tiny little rocks and dirt? Took me forever to get that crap out... ridiculous! Almost like the top of the engine had been used as a garden shovel or something.
     
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    Joker, Dec 3, 2016
    #45
  6. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    And there is a good example of why NOT to use silicone sealant when rebuilding an engine. Little bits break off and get trapped in an oil gallery somewhere blocking the oil and bang goes your engine. Buy new gaskets, it will be cheaper than a new engine.
     
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    Murdo, Dec 4, 2016
    #46
  7. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Yes definitely getting new gaskets.
     
    Joker, Dec 4, 2016
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  8. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    If that silicone made it's way through into the oil pan it may be potentially clogging the oil pickup - that was one of the main points I read about on several forms against employing silicone to re-use gaskets, including head and cylinder base gaskets
     
    ruckusman, Dec 4, 2016
    #48
  9. risky

    risky risky

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    you could ask allan moffat on that one- cost him a bathurst engine back in the 70,s.
     
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    risky, Dec 4, 2016
    #49
  10. sharky

    sharky Well-Known Member

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    Yuck, I dont think I have even seen a head, cylinder or even carby silicon gasket work yet without bits hanging off everywhere. And they all seem to have the "more the merrier" approach & probably over "spec" on tightening.
     
    sharky, Dec 4, 2016
    #50
  11. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Well I took the advice (thanks) and pulled the bore off...

    Haven't taken any photos but sure enough there was goop there. Nowhere near as bad, but enough for me to be happy I did it. It also made it 10 times easier to clean the top of the bore up, will take some photos after the clean because looks pretty good now. Was talking to @MashtX today who suggested just buying a full gasket kit... I might do that and drop the sump off as well and check what's going on... if I've got this far I may as well take a bit of extra care.
     
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    Joker, Dec 4, 2016
    #51
  12. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    sometimes even though you may not find anything needing repair or replacement the peace of mind at knowing that everything is healthy is priceless
     
    ruckusman, Dec 4, 2016
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  13. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Yes I agree... I'm just cautious with the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it because then it probably will be"... (modified quote to suit my experiences!)
     
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    Joker, Dec 4, 2016
    #53
  14. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    So many simultaneous projects.. guess that's what happens when you get a redundancy as a Christmas present! :minigun:

    Ordered an EXUP repair kit again from Venhill - great kit, GBP 12 including postage. I used this on the 250 and it is great, you can cut the cable lengths to what you need etc. Unfortunately the spare 250 cable was too short for the 400 so I need to order another kit. For those at home you can get them here:

    https://www.venhill.co.uk/Hoses_&_C...1-11-100_UNIVERSAL_EXUP_CABLE_REPAIR_KIT.html
     
    Joker, Dec 8, 2016
    #54
  15. risky

    risky risky

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    sorry to hear about the redundancy-always a bright light around the corner.hope all goes well.
     
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    risky, Dec 8, 2016
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  16. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Just an FYI - that cable is available, in Australia, I wish I could remember more details as to the cable strand count and other specifics, but the clue I am able to give is it's not the strand count of the cable available Whitworths marine (too rigid) - when I did the FZR250 EXUP cable I contacted the Sydney distributor and the guy was kind enough to meet me 5 Kms away on his way home with a few metres - all for free - it's worth searching ship chandlers for a source potentially
     
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    ruckusman, Dec 8, 2016
    #56
  17. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    I've tried repeatedly and had very little success so if you can find it locally please let me know where.

    I've tried even bicycle cable but it's not the same, the bits that go on the end are a particular diameter to fit into the butterfly and it all just got too complicated. 2 cables posted for $20-$25 has worked OK for me in the past but that's only because I haven't found another option.
     
    Joker, Dec 8, 2016
    #57
  18. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    • Like Like x 2
    ruckusman, Dec 8, 2016
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  19. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    my67xr, Dec 8, 2016
    #59
  20. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Thanks guys. I should have been more clear - the hardest thing to find is the little bits that go on the end of the cable (they have a tiny allen key bolt) do you know where to get those?

    Wouldn't even know what to call them, I bet it's some stupid key word I don't know.
     
    Joker, Dec 8, 2016
    #60
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