A.K.A. How NOT to take corners. Location: Twisties running in to Marysville, long righthander, tightens. Conditions: Perfect - Fine & Sunny approaching 35°C Backstory: Four mates and myself head out for a ~190Km round trip (St. Andrews - Kinglake - Marysville - Black Spur - Reefton Spur - Healesville) (Orignal Plan). Started out fine, However I think there are a few things wrong with her (aside from the rider <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s -->) - I think I've got grotty carbies, and overheating coil(s) (?). She did "lose cylinders" on me a few times, but only on the long stretches where she was above 9k, or over 80Km/h, which forced me to the side of the road. Also, I think my fuel filter is funny, as she is happy only when it's switched to reserve. It could be something to do with the hill I was trying to get up (no fuel pump to my knowledge (limited)). Other than that she was a dream, and my hands/wrists hadn't started to hurt (yet). I was behind one of my mates' dad, who rides an '86 Suzuki RG500 (*cough* *cough* don't stay behind it for too long *cough* *cough*), and the other 3 riders were out of sight, pushing the envelope. We came to a turn, and the sign said that both ways went to where we wanted to go, and we had no idea which way we should go, so we followed the 'flow' of the road, wondering whether we have gotten seperated. Alan (RG500) motions me to go ahead of him, and I read it as "go a little quicker and see if you can spot them ahead"... which - in hindsight - doesn't make any sense. Anyways, I nip off, and I start pulling away from Alan, and am in 'the zone' (for a learner, anyways!) getting everything right. Going at my own pace, everything was clicking nicely - when I spot the other 3 riders up ahead, just as they pulled ahead of a car that was slowing them down. So I think "Hey I'll catch up to them and tell them to slow down for Alan!" - and I push it a bit more. About 4-5 turns from when I first spotted them, I came to a long right hander, which sharpens, with a firetrail leading onto it from the outside of the turn. Incident: I am a little quick into the start of the turn, but if it maintained it's curve, it would have been okay - but it didn't. I must have paniced, and I'd be willing to bet that anyone with some small amount of skill would have leaned her over a little more, tapped the rears to slow down a bit, and pulled around the corner. But not me <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> I decide to make a full stop, going ~70Km/h at the point when the corner gets a bit more sharp. I level her out, aiming for where the firetrack comes into the corner (perhaps a red herring?), and plan to stop on the gravel just off the corner. Well, Mr. Isaac Newton had a different plan. I managed to slow down a fair bit, but only shaved off about half my speed. Onto the gravel at about 35Km/h, and going straight toward the embankment, no more than 4m away. I relax, knowing I'm about to hit and there's nothing I can do about it. I can't quite recall what happened between running onto the gravel and me hitting the same embankment ~1.5m to the right of the bike, but I know I hit the embankment at pretty much a 90° aspect angle. There was a thick branh, which had a few branches raised above the gravel on the side of the embankment, and I reckon the top third of my front tyre would have hit that at the same time as the front of the tyre would have hit the embankment itself. The bike drops on her right side, and I collect myself and rush to the bike, with no thought spared for my own damages (which turned out to be absolutely nothing - I was relaxed!) She is still running when she's down, and I quickly pick her up. First go and she's up, except she stopped running. Uh-oh. I turn the ignition off, and get around the other side and try to find neutral. I'm in a bit of a shocked state, and I think that because there's no green light (because I'm not in neutral) - the electrics have gone. But, after a bit of stuffing around, I find neutral, and back her away from the embankment. The front discs squeak for the first half rotation, and then they are quiet. I put the sidestand down, and flag down Alan with a "thumbs down" hand signal. We then try to start the bike, but because the oil/fuel has been slushed around because of the drop, she is hesitant to start. At this point, I have taken my helmet + gloves + jacket off, and am starting to cool down. I see normal 'smoke'/'vapour' coming from the exhaust as Alan tries to start the bike, and she eventually goes. Riding Home: She has developed a 'language' when she's riding now, slow minor lateral oscillation which stops as she gets to about 100Km/h. There appeared to be no more mechanical damage to her on the way home, apart from the minor oscillations the whole time <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> Damage: Windscreen cracked on right side Minor lateral oscillations (maximum effect at about 60Km/h) Bent (back) right handlebar (could be cause of oscillations) Ok I think that's it - what are your thoughts everyone? -Muzza
An innocent mistake that could've turned out alot worse than it did. Be thankful you walked/rode away from this one and learn greatly from your mistake/s. As for the bike having a bit of a wobble, could be bent front axle... could be fubar'd bearings, could be bent rotor (causing it to brake at one point on the rotor). As with ALL accidents, even if you feel ok - get yourself checked over by a doctor; just tell them you had a bike incident and tell them the points of impact (ie. shoulder, hip,...) and get them to check it out. For future - yes, you should have realised early that you were running into a corner too hot; looked through the corner and cranked it over as hard as you possibly could. Trail braking is optional... and should only really be attempted if you know exactly how your rear brake works in a moment like that, otherwise it can do more harm than good.
good to hear you come out of it ok... the bike from what you say seams to have come out of it ok as well... the osolations could be a whole number of things... any thing from you tring to find things <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> (that were there b4 but never notised) to the whole frame being twisted <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> But I would first off be chacking the front wheel... I'm poting my money on the rim being a wee bit bent if not just the tyre...
I did the same thing once; but the outcome wasn't nearly so nice. Ended up in a ditch with a hole in my foot and a dislocated shoulder... and my bike was a write off. Even that was relatively harmless. I was wearing all my gear and it got pretty torn up. I doubt I'd be here today if I hadn't been wearing it all. Tough way to learn, and i'm just glad that I had been convinced to take out comprehensive insurance two weeks before hand. So, all in all you came off pretty light for what I've been told is quite a common mistake: You realise you're going into a corner too fast for your current lean angle so: a) Instead of leaning harder, you panic, get off the throttle and grab a fist-full of breaks. b) Instead of looking through the corner you fixate on the quickly approaching corner and (unconsciously) aim for it. c) Your hands and arms tighten up on the handle bars in preparation for hard breaking. All those things have different side affects which will take you off the road, and they're all natural instincts that you really have to learn to fight. I'm often finding myself doing these things when I'm pushing it through the twisties, and as soon as I notice myself doing them i have to force myself to stop. To give you an idea of the side effects, just rolling off the throttle is enough to transfer too much of the bikes weight onto the front tyre. This causes the front suspension to compress outside of it's optimum functioning range. When combined with the excess weight on the front wheel, it can overload the front end and put you into a slide (and if it regains traction can throw you over the top in a high-side). Coupled with heavy breaking and a high lean angle the weight transfer becomes a lot more sudden and a slide is a lot more likely. If you jump on the rear break it will extend the trail and subsequently make the bike harder to turn. This will also compress the rear suspension (making it over-responsive), and will still result in a transfer of weight to the front of the bike. As the rear tyre is designed to hold 60% of the bikes weight in a corner, while the front is designed to hold only 40%, shifting the weight forward will reduce available traction. Combined with over-responsive rear suspension and a high lean angle, even just tapping the rear break can cause the rear end to loose traction and result in a low-side. From what i can gather the best practice in this scenario is to lean harder (afterall, it's your lean angle that was insufficient for the corner), and accelerate smoothly. A smooth acceleration will transfer some of the weight off the front and onto the rear; as the front end is designed for 40% of the bikes weight, and the rear for 60%, this puts the tyres and suspension in their optimum ranges for maximum traction / response.
Thanks for the replies guys! I've read them about four times because they are all sound advice Only thing is, everyone I talk to in real life tells me to "get rid of the bike"... because I've had the high-speed cylinder loss problem pretty much since day 1. I don't see it as a huge problem, but others think I've bought a lemon <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> I'm determined not to turn this into a loss. On the advice of clipstone yamaha, I'm going to pull apart the carbies and see what's in there, and also on the advice of clipstone yamaha, I'm going to pull off the front wheel and check it for lumps & bumps (including the rotors/discs - thanks Koma!) Pedders advised me to take it to someone like Peter Stevens and get them to have a look at the front forks/front tyre - and they might possibly have an adjuster there? What do you guys reckon? Also - I should probably use the search function on the forum, but any idea where to get a fresh set of emulsion tubes & needles? Japan? Should I keep it and fix it? or pawn it off as a loss? -Muzza
Peter steavens will take them to Bob Martin in Ferntree gully and put %50 to %100 mark up on their work.. I can streighten forks if they are not to bed (well actualy I have a friend who does it) but I can cestanly check them... same goes for the wheel and the rest of the bike... (I was able to do streighten frames and there is still pocibility that I can... long story...) I can also have a look at your carbs... strip, clean and tune... I'm getting rather good at this especialy the 3LNs as I'm getting more and more people coming into my garage just for that... if your Farings are cracked or broken I can plastic weld as well... though I lack the molds for the top so the top will have to be "free hand"... If you need help with transport I can help you there as well...
I would love to have a "mechanical day" or something with as many people from FZR250.com... teaching people how to treat/clean/maintain them... just a pipe dream <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> I'll tell ya what - I'll bring it to the Friday coffee meet, and if you are there, you can have a gander at it, but you don't have to go the whole hog at it... I'm going to have a crack at the carbies at some stage... dunno whether I'll get an acid bath, though... Other than that - if you wanted to look at it without tonnes of other bikes around it, just drop me an e-mail at no457_squog -at- internode dot on dot net . I'm sticking to my guns... wanting to keep her and get her going good... unless someone on these boards thinks otherwise... -Muzza
Sorry I missed you bud... wasn't able to get there until 9. By that time most of the guys had gone home... only a few left <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> Will have to try next time <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> -Muzza
I don't blame you... that ride really took it out of me! I went home, loaded up the camelbak with ice, raspberry cordial and caffeine - then headed off down to mornington for that party. Stayed there about 1 hour then came home and fell asleep instantly!
I took it to Clipstone Yamaha, and left it for a few days for the mechanics to look at it - they called me this morning, and said that they wouldn't touch it! mainly because it's too old, and it's been through a few knocks. Bugger. Looks like I'm going to have to keep it in the backyard in pieces for a while... I'm gonna miss riding it (even if it was a bit wonky) <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> -Muzza
I'd try A1 motorcycles in Brighton, mate. I had similar problems getting the bigger places to look at my fizzer when i first bought it (nah mate, we don't service grey imports bla bla bla). A1 got the bike running great with no attitude - I'd hope they give you the same help (p: 95639251). I went in and told them i just wanted a quote on sorting out an idling problem and they had no problem with that - but after realising the carbs, valve clearances, air filter etc. needing serious attention i just said give it the works and have never regretted it. Bike was like new after service (for around $500). Since then I've done 20000km and done the majority of servicing myself (fluid changes, filter changes, brake pads etc.) and had them check the carbs and more serious stuff. No wukkin furries. Good luck getting the little fella sorted.
There's an A1 Motorcycles in ringwood too, right near Clipstone. But I couldn't say whether they would have the same attitude as the A1 in Brighton.
yeah they're run by the same people so should be much the same. I think squog is closer to Brighton though i can;t really back that up....
