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Pinned Hone & Fit New Rings

Discussion in 'Tech Tips' started by maelstrom, Nov 9, 2014.

  1. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Ahhh Jim! :help:
    I am close (a relevant term for me) to finishing my frame mods and I have to remove my hideous engine and prep the frame for powder coating.
    Right now I am tormented by images of your beautiful engine. Vapour blasting, mmmmm! A total engine strip and pack it off to the UK. It gives me the creeps just thinking about it. Then of course once the engine is apart, may as well do this and that and the other thing. Hell, why not buy the Rotrex supercharger and and and . . .
    Look now I sabotaged my own thread!
     
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  2. Simon

    Simon Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Just been re read..thumbs up from me..cheers from over here m8,

    Si
     
  3. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Deglazing Cylinders with a Flex-Hone
    So I finally deglazed my cylinders, made some videos, and took a photo. I will take another one after I finish the cleaning process so that you can actually see how fine the finish is. The photo that you see here exaggerates the roughness of the finish because of the angle of the shot, and I am shining a light directly onto it. When looking through the sleeve, it is much more apparent how fine it is. The purpose of the video is to demonstrate the speed of the stroke vs drill speed. This is something that gets asked a lot. Of course you could calculate the number of rotations per stroke but you still have to execute it, so a visual demonstration is a good solution. I actually prefer to use a slower drill and stroke motion, but anyway, you adapt to what you have. You can see that I achieved quite an acceptable angle, 45 being optimum, on my cross hatch. Wash with a bottle brush in hot soapy water, solvents are not recommended because they will remove the oil but not the grit.







    [​IMG]


    cheers
    Blair
     
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    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
  4. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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  5. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Great thread.. had another good read of it..
    Now I am not sure about other manufacturers but Honda apparently run very tight bore to piston clearances due to the technology in the piston materials and expansion rates etc.. there have been many instances where "Engine builders" thought they knew better and that the data in the factory manual was wrong and bored them with significantly more clearance only to find the rebuilt engine was basically worn out before they even started... now the caveat is that Aftermarket (made in china) may not have the same technology in the materials... so as always.. use the specs from the supplier.
    the Piston I will be using in the SRX has all the machining details in the box and that will be what I want my machinist to use.. this is a Wiseco 1mm oversize Forged piston.. :)
     
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  6. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    http://blog.jepistons.com/2618-vs.-4032-material-differences
    @Andych absolutely correct. It all depends on the alloy. For example, the standard pistons used in the 900cc bevel drive Ducatis were forged 4032 and wait for it . . the recommended clearance for the 86mm bore is 0.02 - 0.04mm. Wrap your head around that. For those of you who like to work in cubits, 0.00078" on the low side.
     
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  7. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    The Wiseco forged piston's can sometime's be a little noisy till they warm up due to the expansion of the alloy's used.

    Then there's the Wossener forged piston's, on their site it say's the clearance is already built in to the piston, but they have a recommended bore size written on each piston box too.
    https://wossnerpistons.com/pages/piston-installation-instructions
     
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  8. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    I am sure Wiseco use both alloys as I seem to recall the pistons that Brook Henry got them to make for the Ducati also ran tight clearances .
     
  9. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    These are the machining specs for my Wiseco Forged Piston.. there is also some good info in the instructions for the rings which I will scan later and post up.. it all ties in with the original post on honing etc.

    Thee piston to bore clearance isnt quite the same as a Ducati or the SOHC Hond'a but its not far off

    Piston Specs.jpeg
     
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  10. Joker

    Joker Coming and going... Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Not a baited question Blair, I promise... (everyone probably knows I have strong opinions on this topic and I've shared them elsewhere so I'm not going back there again) but why did you say in your video that "honing" was also "de-glazing"? What's your understanding on those terms - ie in your experience and where did it come from? I'm confused as to why people still use them interchangeably - there's not a lot of specific information on it so am interested to hear your perspective.
     
  11. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    As you said many people, including me, use them interchangeably. I get that the terms are not ideal but they have been bandied about since forever.
     
  12. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    How do you deglaze if you don't use a honing tool? I use my hone to take off a very tiny amount of metal to remove the polished surface where the rings run.
    I guess that is where the use of both terms for the same procedure come from.
     
  13. Andych

    Andych Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    To "deglaze" is remove shiny or smooth surfaces... most references relate to cooking but by definition the meaning is the same...and to hone... well the below pic is from the Cambridge Dictionary..
    Hone.jpeg

    So the terminology has been around for a long time and can be used in many different circumstances.. but in this instance they are being used to describe how to take a used (not necessarily worn) cylinder and prepare it for new pistons or rings or even for the original rings, to give them the best possible chance of performing as they were originally designed.

    The following pics are the Installation instructions from Wiseco who are a well respected manufacturer of not only performance engine products but also OEM products as well..

    Wiseco Page 1.jpeg
    Wiseco page 2.jpeg
     
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