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Help GSF250 Bandit - ELECTRIC BLUES

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by bandithat, Feb 14, 2015.

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  1. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    If you join the forum for $5 you get access to the resources including the one above. There's a little bit there including manuals that may help you if you don't already have them.

    Doesn't take too long to translate, but if you get stuck on some other Jupanesie hit me up.
     
    Joker, Feb 16, 2015
    #21
  2. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    Thanks Stu.

    I just got an email that my CDI has arrived.

    If life were a computer game I'd be hitting save right now. I'm concerned that whatever wrecked the last unit is still a problem. If this is the case, it'll be money down the drain and back to drawing board.

    I've no idea what it could be so I'm going to make a potential list. Contributions welcome!

    -Bad coil(s)
    -Earthed wire between CDI and coil.
    -bad plugs
    -ungrounded plugs
    -insufficient ground
    -issue with regulator rectifier (Voltage in wrong direction/opposite polarity, or too high.)
     
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
    #22
  3. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Occam's Razor:- Old age may have killed the previous unit.
    The charging system has nothing to do with the ignition system. Except for the simple fact that output voltage from the coils will decrease as the input voltage decreases. Some people run their racing bikes with no charging system, commonly known as "total loss" (the name is the promise).
     
    maelstrom, Feb 18, 2015
    #23
  4. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    Hey maelstrom. I agree with what you are saying about them (ign and charging circuits) being functionally independent. However I'm imagining (for the sake of diligence )a scenario where the R/R is failing to limit voltage from stator,which is in turn being run to battery and then to CDI. If the CDI is sensitive to high Voltage on the 12v wire, then I could see CDI being damaged by a bad R/R.

    alternatively, if R/R voltage was being sent to CDI in reverse polarity, then this could also make the CDI **** itself?

    Again, this is all new to me... so i could be completly wrong. Only trying to check all avenues.

    So basically I've bought a new CDI and now I'm too scared to use it!
     
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
    #24
  5. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    Hey bandithat what not pull the back off your old CDI and see if there any burns marks on the board, or cracked solder joints, might help you understand why it failed.
     
    kiffsta, Feb 18, 2015
    #25
  6. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    Yeah, i did and visual inspection didn't show anything that i could see. Tried testing the capacitors by setting multimeter o K ohms to give charge, then testing voltage. All gave fixed ohm reading then nil volts which should mean all 5 are dead.... i think.
     
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
    #26
  7. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    Ok
    Aiming to address above points I've done the following.

    Check coils resistance*
    Check continuity between all primary coil wires and earth (no cont)
    Replaced all plugs
    Added jumper lead from negative terminal of battery to frame.**
    RR check

    *primary coil resistance is showing almost 5ohm, should this be a concern? (Unofficial spec sheet says max 3.8)

    **I tested the ground for continuity between ground wires in the loom and various points on the frame and block. Most places wont show anything without scratching with the probe a little. The etched letters on the build plate however give me good results, usually as low as 5-6 ohms. I assume this is pretty standard?
     
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
    #27
  8. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    SHES A SPARKIN!!!!
     
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    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
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  9. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    Woo Hooo
     
    kiffsta, Feb 18, 2015
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  10. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    What octane do these things normally run? 95, 98? Also any oil in particular or just a 10w40?
     
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
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  11. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    they are tuned for 91RON out of the factory, I always just run 91 in my bikes and they run okay, as for oil I run 10w40 in my in-line 4's
     
    kiffsta, Feb 18, 2015
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  12. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    Holy crap it even runs!

    I'm super stoked but mostly just shocked! She actually runs kinda nicely, no misfires, spluttering, or funky noises. Revs pretty smoothly up and down the range. Takes a second to start up, but its been a while so whatever.

    The tacho doesn't work so that's the next mission - electrically operated. Opened the headlight and saw electric spaghetti and thought "nah, **** that off for tomorrow."
    I've only owned a single and a V-twin so its pretty hard to even guess the rpm at the moment.

    Also need to change the oil and filter, which means removing the headers. Noticed one of the bolt heads has sheared off (some previous owners work).
     
    • Like Like x 3
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
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  13. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    awesome news Bandithat, you will be tearing up Putty road in no time :thumb_ups:
     
    kiffsta, Feb 18, 2015
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  14. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    So looking over the wiring diagram that Stu supplied (and translated, cheers bro!), it seems that the Tacho operates off the B/Y wire which is the input wire for coil for 2-3.
    This is the wire which was earthing itself somewhere, and potentially at fault for the old CDI breaking. I replaced the entire wire for another one which I ran over the top of the loom.

    So basically I broke the tacho...

    I realise that I can piggyback into the new wire and send it into the tacho, but using the coil input wire seems strange to me (I figure it would be around 200-300 volts - and a functionally important part of the bike- but then I'm not an electrical engineer so whatever.)

    Does anyone have much experience with tacho's running of the coil input lead?
     
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
    #34
  15. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    Eg connected in series or parallel, any resistors?
     
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
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  16. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    All good, ran a wire as per diagram. Starts on coil input neg wire, runs up to tacho. Tacho works now!

    Also holy ****. I thought i was redlining it before- I was on about 8-9krpm. These things are insane!?!? I don't even have the balls to rev it past 70%... when it's in the garage still!!

    Y'all are crazy - thanks for all the help so far!
     
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    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
    #36
  17. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    I know very little about all of this. But it is a TCI ignition not CDI.
    My understanding is that the coil is fully powered and the signal from the TCI switches the connection, something like that. It is not unheard of for electronic tachos to be powered by the coil negative on these types of ignitions.
     
    maelstrom, Feb 18, 2015
    #37
  18. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    Great news, the bandit is away............figuratively speaking :thumb_ups: In your final paragraph you mention the need to change oil and filter. There is no need to remove the headers to perform this task..............I own one and have never removed the headers.
    Take it that you are speaking about the filter removal, loosen the 3 bolts and remove plate........filter to follow.
    It's a little tight but easy enough. Good luck with it all, open road............here we come :D
     
    Phil, Feb 18, 2015
    #38
  19. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    Yeah glad to hear phil, thanks!
    Next up i buy a helmet and get it blue slipped! Anyone know of a good, trustworthy auvis near chatswood or maroubra?
     
    bandithat, Feb 18, 2015
    #39
  20. bandithat

    bandithat Active Member

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    Ghetto meth-lab style testing aparatus says switch opens at 115°C-110°C, closes again at 100.

    Yep, a tuna can filled with motor oil on a campstove with candy thermometer and testing unit hanging from some solder in the oil. Test leads go to ac/dc adapter (5v 2amp) and small headlight. When light goes on check temp, and again when off.

    I think that the brass around the switch might delay the temp rising at the sensor slightly.

    Next up thermostat and temp light.

    (Pics not working atm.)
     
    bandithat, Feb 19, 2015
    #40
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