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Front Suspension Upgrade - FZR

Discussion in 'Yamaha 250cc In-Line 4's' started by GreyImport, Jan 4, 2014.

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  1. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Sadly the Zeal has twin rear shocks

    400 rear shock part# 3EN-22210-50 .... wonder if its any better?

    A rebound adjuster? ..... the 250 doesnt have this

    400 shock 2.jpg


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-FZR4...pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item27da0ed2b3

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-Yamaha...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c18b415a&vxp=mtr

    Here u go ..... :commando:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilbers-Typ...pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d46fcf149

    Interesting ....

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-FZR-...133?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3622cded

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hyperpro-Pr...pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item20dd5d7d85


    Interesting #2 .....

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-R6-s...pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item51b686c037
     
    GreyImport, Jan 8, 2014
    #41
  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2014
    maelstrom, Jan 8, 2014
    #42
  3. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Yea I believe it has to be off an R6R not an S, for the correct bottom linkage

    They are regurlarly on US ebay and Ive seen a few for around $100 including shipping.
     
    GreyImport, Jan 8, 2014
    #43
  4. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Does anyone have the fork & fork spring specs for the 3LN1 - I've got a sheet with specs which are for the 3LN5, or 3LN6 or 3LN7. The numbers are totally different to what I actually have in mine.

    peace out

    Glenn
     
    ruckusman, Jan 20, 2014
    #44
  5. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    That English spec sheet is for a 3LN7 .... and its possible its not correct anyway.

    This is from the 3LN1 supplement and its one I sent to have translated ..... cant see that it has the spring free length though.

    Translation 2.jpg

    400 specs

    400 spring specs.png

    ZEAL specs

    zeal suspension.png

    My spare forks
    I think 400mm length is shagged out city.
    The 130mm spacer seems to be stock size ?

    Spare fork spring length.png
     
    GreyImport, Jan 20, 2014
    #45
  6. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Hi Everybody,
    3LN1 Supplement page 2-4
    自由長 = Free Length = 559.6mm
    I don't know what that is the length of.
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2014
    #46
  7. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    and the
    使用 限度 = use limit = 554.6mm
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2014
    #47
  8. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Ahh yes ... I forgot to go and check those pages of specs to see if anything jumped out :commando:

    Funny u should find those numbers ..... this is from that 3LN7 spec sheet .... the plot thickens

    3LN7 suspension specs.png
     
    GreyImport, Jan 20, 2014
    #48
  9. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    But wait there is more!!!!
    スプ リ ング = spool ring
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2014
    #49
  10. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Oh well, maybe that was useless then.
    It was fun though :headbang:
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2014
    #50
  11. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    WTF is a spool ring :lolsign:

    That 559 measurement is close to spring + spacer



    Heres a spring rated movie to get you in the mood ....

     
    • Like Like x 1
    GreyImport, Jan 20, 2014
    #51
  12. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Yes, I feel a lot better now.
    Can somebody put some oil on those gears at the start of the movie.
    crunch crunch crunch
    "What's that crunching sound?"
    "Dunno. I asked the same question when I started work here too."
     
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    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2014
    #52
  13. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    A spool ring is a スプ リ ング
    There, aren't you glad you asked. :)
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2014
    #53
  14. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    Someones in a good mood ..... Ive forgotten wat that is :dance2:

    If we subtract the spacer length and washer thickness from that 559.6mm spec length we should have the correct spring free length .. ??
     
    GreyImport, Jan 20, 2014
    #54
  15. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Thanks guys

    My springs are also 400mm long but those spring rates are nowhere near what I have actually measured.

    With a 10Kg load I get something in the region of 0.39.

    Cross referencing the 3LN7 numbers - they are just fanciful. 0.8kgf/mm -> 1.4kgf/mm

    The FZR400 number look much more realistic and I assume the 250 numbers are softer because a lighter bike, so my measurements are looking good.

    Also if you check the racetech site they list 0.464 for the FZR400 as stock.

    I'm basically doing some measurements and calculations to get me closer the race tech calculated spring rate.

    Likely I'm going to be cutting the soft end off of the stock spring ~200mm of it and adding a short firm valve spring to make up the extra spring length I need so the coils don't bind under full travel.

    I couldn't make it any worse could I...
     
    ruckusman, Jan 20, 2014
    #55
  16. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

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    GreyImport, Jan 20, 2014
    #56
  17. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    They look interesting, though I stumbled upon some TNK upper stanchions specs which listed longer upper stanchions for the 400 - so you may need to cut the spacer to get the correct static sag - no biggie
     
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    ruckusman, Jan 20, 2014
    #57
  18. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    1/ fork oil?
    2/ travel or oil level distance from top of stanchion with spring removed type thing?
    3/ something something G10 (10wt fork oil?)
    4/ did that
    5/ did that

    You can do it like this
    choose and cut out the text that you want to translate
    then save it as an image file like jpeg
    then http://www.ocr-extract.com/
    then google translate
    then sometimes you get things like 'spool ring'
     
    maelstrom, Jan 20, 2014
    #58
  19. Willrcr15

    Willrcr15 Well-Known Member

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    I'll see how my translater is going, weve been away working & havent seen him but they should be done.
    Ill get the page above translated if not already
     
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    Willrcr15, Jan 21, 2014
    #59
  20. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Guys with these two pages you should be able to redo (shorten) your stock springs to get what you want rate wise


    On this page

    http://www.monroe.com.au/trade-corner/tech-info/suspension-systems/spring-design.html

    this paragraph got me thinking - I'm still struggling with this a bit - it seems backwards

    Coil spring strength, or rate, is determined by the length and diameter of the rod. Decreasing the diameter of the rod, the number of turns, and the tightness of the turns increases the strength of the spring. Increasing the rod diameter or the number of turns, or increasing the space between turns reduces spring strength.

    Then I found this page

    http://www.racingsuspensionproducts.com/spring rate.htm

    So I'm going to see if I can measure both ends of my progressive spring and get values and cross reference them with this calculator.

    I'll take pics of my setup, anyone with a fish weighing scale and some exercise weights can do it more easily than I have.

    I'm now confident on getting the desired spring rate by just shortening my stock spring and lengthening the spacer. I'm hoping to ditch the soft end of progressive value altogether.
    However if you removed length from both ends you could raise the rate at both ends of the spring rate to keep some softness.
     
    ruckusman, Jan 21, 2014
    #60
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