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Discussion Brake lines - legal

Discussion in 'Tyres Wheels and Brakes' started by ruckusman, Apr 13, 2023.

  1. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Hey,

    Does anyone know if these fitting are road legal in OZ?



    Looks like a lovely way to make braided lines and extremely cost effective
     
  2. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    As far as I know they are meant to have ADR approval for road use but happy to be proven wrong.
    If my memory serves me correctly I think @Murdo had some chinese braided line made into hoses and tested to destruction by his son... at Enzed or somewhere similar... so they would probably be fine but most likely wouldnt pass a Roadworthy...
    Pity really.
    I used to make up new hoses for Fighter aircraft when in my appreticeship. They were all AN style screw together fittings with SS braided line. I spent 2 of my 5 years in the Hydraulic Shop at Hawker de Havilland. The best fun was when you had to make a batch of new high pressure braided lines and for every 10 hoses you had to test 1 to destruction, burst pressure was around 20,000 psi and they do go with a bang :)
     
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  3. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    20,000 PSI going off, I wouldn't want to be in the same suburb...

    ADR compliance can be so counter-intuitive, especially when you can likely run these fittings on a racetrack

    @Murdo would love to know which fittings etc you used - I'm all over Aliexpress right now giving myself a headache
     
  4. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    The testing was done on a very specific test rig with a visual cover. The failures were never on the AN fittings, it was pretty much always the hose that failed but as is the case with fluid, once there is a leak the pressure is basically gone. Hydraulic fluid is for all intent non compressable so not overly dangerous when a hose fails... messy though.
    The biggest issue was if you had a failer on the assembly.. ie the hose came out of the fitting or you hadn't prepped the hose end square etc... The full batch were always tested to max working pressure plus 20% and the last one was the destructive test.
    Had plenty that held 20,000 psi without any issue. That was a long time ago, about 50 years now... no doubt they use higher pressures these days in the aircraft industry.
     
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  5. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    That's one squirt that I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of, I can imaging the mess.

    Fascinating insight, 20,000 PSI is just huge, but I suppose when you think of say the hydraulic ram on a tip truck, or one of the mining trucks, it's probably routine and the aircraft industry are great IMO with their standards and testing - otherwise peeps die fiery deaths.
     
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  6. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I don't think the bolt up hoses are adr legal. These ones from aliexpress have the correct J1706 numbers on them (I think without looking) for road use, but some may argue. My son tested one to 3,500psi with no problems (adr's require 3,000 psi). The ones I buy from aliexpress seem to be of good quality, and although my son has the ticket and press to make them he cannot buy the components as cheap as I can buy the hose from China already made. I put black heat shrink over them before fitting and I have never had anybody even look at what they are made from during inspections.Use what ever you are comfortable with.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/324....order_list.order_list_main.52.21ef1802g3ly8v
     
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  7. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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  8. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    If you hold the bolt flange between two piece of aluminium in a vice you can carefully bend the angle a little bit.
     
  9. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I thought about that, however I'm putting a radial master [need 90 degrees] with MT07 calipers that have the banjos on the side and need to be either zero degrees or possibly 28 degrees which is running at 90 degrees to the banjo on the master cylinder - it's a weird match up.

    Then there's the rear caliper, it's all getting messy, those banjo fitting that can be rotated save the headache of trying to figure it out from their pictures basically
     
  10. baddog

    baddog Active Member

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    I have used Venhill on 2 bikes and am quite satisfied with them. They have a good selection of banjo fittings, various angles and lengths.
    https://www.venhill.co.uk/
    They also have a U.S. website.
     
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  11. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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  12. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Dunno if they are legal but we used Speedflow version of the same thing in our bike shop in Oz. Never had any issues. We only used stainless fittings on brakelines. For things like an engine breather we could use the aluminium fittings.
     
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  13. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I've actually got a pair of Venhill lines that I'm going to put into service for rear brakes. I bought them off of facebook marketplace, I cannot recall which bike they're supposed to be off.
    It's a very good system.

    That was initially why I was attracted to the lines with the rotatable fittings on Aliexpress because I'm changing both master cylinders and calipers across three bikes.
     
  14. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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  15. DannoXYZ

    DannoXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Is that bare braids? You really want them coated/sleeved so they don't tear up anything they rub against
     
  16. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    They're all PVC coated braids, I checked various listings and one had the install pics with the PVC cut back for the bare braids to install the fitting.

    I bit the bullet and cheated at the same time, I got some double plus length crimped lines with the fittings that you can rotate when tightening, those I can cut in two.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003366307252.html

    As well I got some of the stainless AN3 fittings.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004284237281.html

    That way I can use the crimped ends down at the caliper and the AN3 fittings at the master cylinders or vice versa.

    I've got more than enough to do the 3 bikes for ~$200 or thereabouts.

    These little slave cylinders or others like them, have got me wondering about hydraulic clutch conversion.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003796365887.html

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004465645153.html

    They go with these master cylinders - I've actually got one of these brake master cylinders and the quality is excellent.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005311424045.html

    The supplied levers are a bit howyougoin' but I think these levers suit as the 19RCS master cylinders are Brembo copies
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32711357648.html

    Just about to do the measurements and maths on the required travel for the clutch and slave cylinder volume

    That site is so dangerous..., especially when there's nothing on TV
     
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  17. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    You need to use -4 hose with a hydraulic clutch. Personally, I think they suck.
     
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  18. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Is that an AN4 hose? [larger diameter internally]
     
  19. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Yes.
     
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