1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Project The Second Fizzer

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by Joker, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    Trophy Points:
    898
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Panel Beater, Spray Painter, Custom Fabricator
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha's , 1990 FZR250R 3LN3 , 1986 XT250TS 57R , 1984 IT200L 43G, 1976 IT400C 510
    Battery need's to be fully charged to get a better indication of voltage at idle and at rev's, somewhere between 12.6V and 13V when it's sat for an hour or so.
    Do you have a charger with around 1A output you can charge it with for a couple of hour's, don't leave it charging too long though

    Sound's like there is something wrong with the exciter circuit in the reg/rect, or there's high resistance in one of the wire's
     
  2. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    Yep you're right on the money there. Couple of hours charge now I'm getting around 13.8V at idle. Probably a bit high, I expect it to drop back when the battery settles a bit because I basically pulled it straight off the charger and threw it in.

    In other news I went into the carbies again (it's a fizzer thing!) and checked all the jets. Everything's correct and clear so we're good there. The only issue I found was that something still isn't right between Blair's Litetek seals and my floats. It's happened before, but I'm puzzled why I am getting compression failure. All the other seals in other areas are fine, but all four of these are buggered. No issue though, I threw in the keyster ones instead and reassembled for now.

    20171104_103351.jpg

    I took her for a ride, she goes really well up to around 10-12K and then bogs again. I played with the choke and the idle to see if making it richer then leaner made a difference but it didn't. So that leaves one thing left - spark. Everything else seems fine, must have a plug or two that aren't pulling their weight. The plug leads are still relatively new from last time I changed them and I know the coils go OK so let's see what I find there next. Wish me luck!
     
  3. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

    Messages:
    4,737
    Likes Received:
    2,882
    Trophy Points:
    943
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    My Bike:
    FZR250R 3LN6
    Are those the ones for the floats? There are two variants of the carb body, some need a thicker o-ring like the ones in your photo. Others use the standard size.
     
  4. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    Yeh, this is the correct (smaller set). I still have the larger set. Last time Blair wanted me to measure the diameter of the opening and let him know so he could check against his records, but unfortunately I don't have anything precise enough to measure it (my dodgey digital caliper is cheap and nasty). I'll have to get something better and do it at some stage though.
     
  5. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    Trophy Points:
    898
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Panel Beater, Spray Painter, Custom Fabricator
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha's , 1990 FZR250R 3LN3 , 1986 XT250TS 57R , 1984 IT200L 43G, 1976 IT400C 510
    Do you use silicon oil on the float o'rings before you fit them?
    Look's like they were kind of pinched when the fuel bowl bolt's were done up,
    I use silicon oil on mine every time i refit the bowl's as the o'ring's don't hold the float's flush with the carby base otherwise

    Have you checked the float height's and fuel level's yet ?
     
  6. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    No I didn't, but then again I didn't have an issue with the keyster ones they just went straight in...?

    I'll have to move onto float heights next. It feels really lean so maybe its something to do with that, or blocked in the bottom of the tank or something...

    Also has anyone heard the GT250R prior to 2010 uses the BDST26 carburetor, the same as the FZR? I stumbled across a thread (lost it now) that suggested that was the case...? If so this could be a seriously important piece of info...

    I wonder if needles/jets/emulsion could be sourced through hyosung.... I checked the service manual and it's definitely BDS26 but a double as opposed to inline 4...
    Capture.JPG
     
  7. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    Trophy Points:
    898
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Panel Beater, Spray Painter, Custom Fabricator
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha's , 1990 FZR250R 3LN3 , 1986 XT250TS 57R , 1984 IT200L 43G, 1976 IT400C 510
    BDS26 v's BDST28, the diaphram's may be the close but the top o'ring is connected to the diaphram ?

    08 GT250R Hyosung Comet

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHXkiGw_MwLRrWKUTM9oFLD6G5SftG1Sv67Cd9EJi-R0yvqDxxGA.jpg
    carb101-001s.jpg
     
  8. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,108
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Well that is odd. We have been selling kits for 5 years and no one has had similar issues. Matt Harper in the UK just reported back to me about doing a refurb on some carbs that had our kits fitted and no issues. Sent you a pm @Joker
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  9. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    So I tried a few things today. New plugs, changed the EXUP motor out to my spare and started snipping HT leads back. It is better, around 12K now, but doesn't want to go much higher. Still feels hindered...

    I suppose next step is to make the needles richer... or simply swap them out for the keyster ones and tubes. Starting to mess with a lot of things now it's going to be hard to put the finger on one cause.
     
  10. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    Trophy Points:
    898
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Panel Beater, Spray Painter, Custom Fabricator
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha's , 1990 FZR250R 3LN3 , 1986 XT250TS 57R , 1984 IT200L 43G, 1976 IT400C 510
    Checked your fuel level's yet ?
     
  11. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

    Messages:
    5,108
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Trophy Points:
    1,148
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thailand
    Home Page:
    My Bike:
    Yamaha FZR400 3TJ1, Honda MC22
    Needles wear at idle because the needle is vibrating in the tube, so it is not going to affect high rpm unless the emulsion tubes are seriously worn.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    Nah not yet, It is on my list of things, I wanted to try what I thought were the more obvious issues first. It certainly seems to go well up to 12K now... I need to push it harder to see what it does.

    I do have a question about that process though, is it a matter of getting a hose and marking a particular length on it to line up with the marking on the carburetor bowl? Otherwise I imagine the variability as to how hard you "pull" the hose would influence accuracy. The second mark is around 9mm above that line (can't remember exactly I need to look it up again).
     
  13. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
  14. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    Thanks mate I did see that in another thread my question is how long is your piece of hose? Did you mark the first position relative to the end that is attached to the carb? Because I'm sure you could slide that up and down with your thumb and gain or lose a few mm on the measurement (also it looks like your hose is semi pinched, is this an issue?).

    Just trying to get a feel for potential variables.
     
  15. GreyImport

    GreyImport Administrator Staff Member The Chief Contributing Member

    Messages:
    10,929
    Likes Received:
    6,720
    Trophy Points:
    1,168
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Between a Rock and a Hard Place
    Location:
    North by NW NSW Oztralia - Tamworth
    My Bike:
    *Kawasaki ZXR250C *Yamaha FZR250R 3LN1 *Yamaha FZR400 *Triumph Bonneville 750 T140V *Triumph Daytona 675 *Triumph Tiger 800XC
    Cant remember on how I did it as it was years ago ..... I think I just attached it (fuel screw closed) and ran it as short as possible , marked the carby line then took it off and measured and marked the second line ... I dont think the kink would affect it as long as the fluid is passing thru
    The first marker has to line up on the carby marker so it shouldnt be moved when taking a reading.

    Not kinked here and gives the same reading

    Fuel level carb 1.jpg
     
  16. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    Ah ok great thanks for the clarification. Hopefully i have the right size hose (will check my brake bleeder kit) and I'll do that this evening.

    The bloody thing sounds pretty bullet proof now it's quite annoying to not have it 100% perfect
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    Hmm so playing around today I think I've found the source of the problem - the fuel pump. The fuel filter seems to be running 1/4 full or less which I think is strange, you'd think the fuel filter would run full. The previous universal one I had did. Checking the suction the fuel pump sometimes seems to work and sometimes doesn't... it's weird. I thought there was air in the system so I cleared it and thought everything was working fine... but the pump didn't seem to be running when the bike was running. Also it seemed to only prime part of the time.

    It sorta makes sense if there is an intermittent issue here that under mid to full load the fuel supply would be starved if the fuel pump isn't working properly and/or is sucking 3/4 air and 1/4 fuel.

    I'm going to try a chinese pump (see how it goes) and see if that rectifies the issue. Any recommendations? I've seen some for about $25, but I don't know how long they last.
     
  18. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    Trophy Points:
    898
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Panel Beater, Spray Painter, Custom Fabricator
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My Bike:
    Yamaha's , 1990 FZR250R 3LN3 , 1986 XT250TS 57R , 1984 IT200L 43G, 1976 IT400C 510
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  19. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    1,399
    Trophy Points:
    798
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Switzerland
    My Bike:
    SV1000SK3
    Yeh that's the one I bought... see what it does. If it fixes the problem then I know it's that for sure. I haven't done the fuel levels yet as I'm not sure the carbies are filling up correctly :oops:

    I was actually gearing up to do them after I was testing the fuel circuit heh...
     
  20. risky

    risky risky

    Messages:
    4,555
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    923
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    risky by name AND actions
    Location:
    newcastle,australia
    My Bike:
    honda ca77, megelli x2,fzr yamaha x 5 ,maxim,cb750.cb600 hornet,zxr250,marusho magnum electra.
    if you need an air filter for the 400 i have a new one for sale.
     

Share This Page