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Help One cylinder dead - Spada

Discussion in 'Honda 250cc Twins' started by Gizziracer, May 21, 2020.

  1. Frankster

    Frankster "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Early in the virus lockdown stage, I ordered a part from Peter Stevens Dandenong (10km away) because I needed it quickly. It took 10 days for it to get to me!
     
  2. Tonino

    Tonino Active Member Premium Member

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    Hey guys I have a VT 250 F that has problems with the tube thay supplies fuel to the second carb. It is missing some orings I believe and leaks fuel. Any ideas as to what bits are required to get a good seal?
     
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  3. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    New O rings with plenty of lube and careful alignment when fitting.
     
  4. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Yep, what Murdo said. Also check there are no cracks or faults in the plastic fuel pipe/joiner. These can be rectified with B J weld or other fuel resistant snot. Given these parts are all over 30 years old rough treatment while fitting fuel line can damage them. Interesting to note this 2 way fuel delivery system, ONLY DELIVERS FUEL TO ONE CARB.!!! Never could understand this system other than cost cutting at the factory by minimising re design of the Spada carbs . Causes lots of otherwise avoidable leak issues in spadas.
     
  5. Frankster

    Frankster "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Just to add to the comments Murdo & Gizzi made...

    Depending on which version for the carbs you have, this particular part is an issue and will leak even when it appears to be installed correctly. I tend to install the carbs onto the engine one carb at a time as it's less frustrating (for me). The older version of the carbs do not have a positioning bolt that when you tighten the nut holds the carbs together. The older carbs just have a little male/female area that loosely aligns them. You then use the airbox metal base to hold the carbs in place (another fun job). Moving the carbs around to do all these tasks inevitably moves the connecting fuel pipe and can cause leakage. Having said that, when it's installed correctly and the right O-ring is used, you won't experience any issues. The VT250F fuel pipe is made of metal. If you find plastic somewhere, then something is wrong.

    I've attached the part schematic for you. Good luck.

    VT250F Fuel Pipe.jpg
     
  6. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    We are talking Spada here. This is the vt250 Spada schematic. Definately plastic , brittle little pipe. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  7. Frankster

    Frankster "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Sorry, my bad. I thought @Tonino was referring to a VT250F.
     
  8. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    He was.
     
  9. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    No, sorry, my bad. Apologies, saw vt and somehow assumed Spada.( well I have had more than my fair share of concussions, thanks mr shoei:)
     
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  10. Tonino

    Tonino Active Member Premium Member

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    No I am referring to a VTF with the alumimium tube . Sadly its no longer available so will have to source a local solution. Thanks a lot
     
  11. Tonino

    Tonino Active Member Premium Member

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    Yep pretty crazy system. Made to leak.
     
  12. Frankster

    Frankster "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I have one of these tubes. You can't have it, but you're welcome to use it to make a copy. If any 3D printing material can resist fuel, then that would be the ideal solution. PM me if you want to use mine as a sample.
     
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  13. Tonino

    Tonino Active Member Premium Member

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    greatly appreciate it but I have the tube just need the correct ends
     
  14. Gizziracer

    Gizziracer Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Could someone take a photo of it..... if it’s not too complex I reckon I could turn one up in my lathe out of brass
     
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  15. Frankster

    Frankster "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    It might be easier to send you a tube, but here are some pics...

    I guess it's the same as the Spada. Fuel enters through rear cylinder carb and connecting tube takes fuel to front cylinder carb.
    IMG_1896.JPG

    This tube has had some non-standard bits added to one side. The brass washer/spacer is too wide and pushes the O-ring closer to the end of the tube. The O-ring is also the wrong size (thickness) and reduces the amount of tube that is left to fit into the orifice used to connect the carb and the tube. This leads to leakage.
    Washer&Oring.jpg

    The washer/spacer must be seated properly.

    Washer.jpg

    Dimensions. In the following image, the LHS is using non-standard bits and there isn't much tube left to work with. The RHS has the standard washer/spacer and O-ring and has a bit more real estate to make a solid connection. The tube has an OD of 8mm, the ends have an OD of 7mm and the ID is 5mm. the shape of the tube is precise as it follows the shape of the two carbs when they are joined together. Some of these early carbs are held in place by the metal airbox base. The next generation have a connecting shaft and bolt that runs near where the fuel connecting pipe is placed. @Murdo has a set of these later model carbs for his VT250F project.

    Dimensions.jpg

    Using the standard O-ring and washer/spacer gives you a bit of room, but still not a lot. Important that the end of the tube seats itself properly in the carb orifice (that's what she said!).

    Female.JPG
     
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