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Project My '90 FZR250 3LN3

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by my67xr, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    My Bike:
    Yamaha's, FZR250 3LN3 1990, XT250TS 57R 1986, IT200L 43G 1984
    Took the bike up to Rider Safe training centre at Murray Bridge today, it was 81km's each way on the freeway plus i spent an hour of practicing on the P plater's track
    It used $8 worth of petrol @ $1.28 p/l, so 6.25 litre's to do 175km's

    Way less consumption than my last ride down south, had to stop after 115km's and switch the tap to reserve

    The bike felt strong in all throttle position's from standing to 100km'h
    It doesn't feel that out of place on the freeway being 100km speed limited as a Learner, thought i'd have car's constantly passing me.
    So all in all i'm happy with the Keyster rebuild kit's now, it'll be interesting to see how many km's i can get out of a tank too.

    Up at the Riser Safe training centre i found the FZR is pretty hard to get around some of the test's like the S bend's ( the L's instructor's mentioned this when i got my L's a few month's ago
    I just made it once out of 12 try's without putting my foot down or going outside the line's.
    And i cant do the figure 8 section inside the white rectangle without going outside the line's
    Keeping it inside the big oval in the middle in 2nd gear is easy.
    Easy doing the weaving in between the reflector's, and the straight line in 1st gear no clutch no throttle

    I'm pretty sure i'll use one of their bikes for the P Plate training/test half day course, or borrow my cousin's 84 GSX250 Suzuki for the day.
    But i might go up and have a few more practice session's on the FZR first, i might be able to get it.

    20161023_144931.jpg 20161023_145305.jpg 20161023_145435.jpg 20161023_145118.jpg 20161023_145045.jpg 20161023_145013.jpg
     
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  2. Joker

    Joker CLUB250 Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    With the turning, try leading with your head and turn the bike to match where you're looking. You might find that easier, but I get these don't have the greatest turning circles anyway.
     
  3. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Yeah i do that now, if i am off the bike and just try pushing it around the S the turning circle is to big to stay inside the line's
    Same with doing the U Turn, even leaning the bike in toward the inside of the curve's
     
  4. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I need to watch and learn more of this.
    But i'd get told to slow it down if i did it at this speed


     
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  5. Joker

    Joker CLUB250 Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    My Bike:
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    He looks like he's got a modified bar setup, front setup, lost the air pipes... different turning circles. If you can't do it like him I wouldn't be too concerned!!
     
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  6. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    My Bike:
    Yamaha's, FZR250 3LN3 1990, XT250TS 57R 1986, IT200L 43G 1984
    I have picked up a set of pencil coil's cheap off an '08 GSX650F, they've done 20,000 km's, and i already have a spare bit of coil loom off a BA/Territory to use to wire it up.
    I cut the insulation back and have reversed the end plug so that the wiring run's straight up to the main harness close to where the original 2x coil's mounted and fitted some spade terminal's temporarily to test it out.
    I will modify some original FZR coil wire's to fit once it's all together and running good.
    Just in the process of removing the tank and lower fairing's to swap them in now

    20161126_202703.jpg 20161126_202729.jpg 20161127_131956.jpg
     
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  7. ruckusman

    ruckusman Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Interesting mod to be undertaking, what are the potential benefits you're hoping for.

    Seeing you undertaking this got me reading up on coil on plugs benefits, some pages boast power output increases because of better coil saturation and stronger spark higher into the upper RPM ranges
     
  8. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    How did the coil resistance values match up?

    And not sure about that @ruckusman, without a TCI unit that can fire independently you still have to use the wasted spark method and hence no advantage in dwell time, if that is what you mean.
     
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  9. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    My Bike:
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    Part of the reason i am doing the conversion is my original coil's are 26 year's old, the cop coil's are only 8 year's old,.
    The other thing is by the time i bought new lead's and new cap's for my original one's, the coil's i've bought are the same price.

    These coil's all measure 1.5 Ω across the primary's and 13.5 Ω on the secondary's, so with coil's 1 and 4 wired in parrallel they are the same resistance as the stock FZR coil's

    The dwell time in these coil's is built into the coil so isn't adjustable, but they do charge and discharge quicker due to there being less load on them
    The benefit's are you don't lose firing on 2x cylinder's if a coil fail's, there are no lead's to fail, and no spark plug cap's to fail.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  10. ruckusman

    ruckusman Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Yeah I was referring to the dwell time, obviously this is going to be incredibly short at peak RPM's, whether or not charging two smaller coils instead of one large is better is the domain of someone with a degree in electro-magetics.

    I suppose the question becomes why did the OEM's go this route with some engines, was it performance, cost or both.

    I did read some pages which suggested it was beneficial with EFI and noise suppression with traditional high tension leads being a potential source of lots of Electromagnetic interference.
     
  11. Joker

    Joker CLUB250 Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew Contributing Member

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    I have a spare set of coils you can have cheaply (I have 3 sets) if you want mate.
     
  12. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Thank's for the offer but half the reason for the conversion is to get rid of my 26 year old coil's, lead's and cap's
    Mine original coil's are still within spec's too.

    Just realised the pencil coil's need to be wired in series so am making up another loom to correct it.
     
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  13. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    My Bike:
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    e ignition coil's i'm using are Denso 129700 4400's (same 129700 **** series as the oem coil's)
    They sit a little high above the rocker cover (1/2" too high but still usable) so i might look around for some shorter one's with the same resistance
    The CBR F4 coil's are supposed to be 1/2" shorter from memory

    The coil loom has been rewired now to run the coil's in series, 1/4, 2/3
    On the primary side i get 3.1 Ω resistance on both pair's, so should be good to go now.

    pencil coil.jpg Th
     
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    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  14. Linkin

    Linkin The Apprentice Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club Contributing Member

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    Will be interested to hear your thoughts on how well this runs once you get it going :thumb_ups:
     
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  15. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Anyone interested in some details on dwell etc, useful article here http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition/ignition.htm
    Programmable TCI units like the Ignitech will allow the COP setup to take advantage of dwell time needed at high rpm. Or it seems that way looking at their information.
     
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  16. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    My Bike:
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    The coil's are back on the bike and loom is connected.
    Cold start (choke on), the bike fired up within half a second instead of 1 - 1.5 second's so it has improved there.
    I let it run for a minute or so to warm up and turned the choke off, the engine seem's to rev a bit cleaner now.
    I'll have to bolt the tank down, put the seat on and try it out down the street now.


    There's plenty of room under the airbox now with the original coil's gone

    20161128_120452.jpg

    You can sort of see the coil's could be a little shorter to give them a bit more room to the rubber shield above (mainly on the right hand side where the rubber come's down lower under the thermostat housing), but they still look alright at this height too.
    I will grab some big grommet's from Clark Rubber when i'm out later to fit around the middle of the coil's to keep them central and stop any vibration

    20161128_120959.jpg 20161128_121020.jpg
     
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  17. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Thank's for that link @maelstrom ,
    with a bit of reverse engineering i might be able to add on some component's to make up a similar circuit to make the OE TCI adjustable ?
    That and some upgraded IGBT triggered transistor's, new capacitor's, resistor's and diode's could make it a nice little unit.
    Would have to get it on the dyno then and see what i can do.
    I've found a few other adjustable TCI option's too

    I have also seen a few thread's where people have used a piggy back ignitor set up running off the OE tci and it take's a bit of work/load away from the factory tci and the new add on module's then do most of the work.

    It will all take a bit of time to play around and set it up though.
    Hopefully i can pick up a cheap 3LN3 tci when i have some spare cash
     
  18. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Well I know diddly squat about electronics @my67xr but I am glad you do.
    I emailed Ignitech because my 400 will have no EXUP and has an R6 tacho that requires the feed signal to be halved. With the Ignitech unit I could do away with my divide-by-two circuit board and the COP option would free up some room for all of my other electronic junk (GPS speedo sensor etc), so I asked them to confirm that it is not a wasted spark setup.
    Cheers
    Blair

    PS: I love the maintenance with the COP system, you could just carry a spare with you and plug it in if you ever need to.
     
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  19. my67xr

    my67xr Well-Known Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    With the way technology is advancing there are so many other option's now.
    My race pit bike Braaap 190cc Pro Factory has an adjustable ignition system (transistor controlled)
    By swapping a couple of wire's around i have 4 option's to retard or advance the timing, and 4 option's for the rev limiter
    11500 rpm, 12200 rpm, 12900 rpm or 15000rpm
    I also have an adjustable stator plate so i can change the timing a bit more as well, good for limiting total advance etc

    There are other ignition's available that will retard the timing for an easier start, and are programable through a remote switch/trim pot or by flicking switchs mounted on the handlebar's
     
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  20. ruckusman

    ruckusman Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I like this mod because it has the potential to make space available for a larger airbox - which is one potential choke point when it comes to volumetric efficiency at high RPM, hmm more ZOOM
     

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