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Project beefsalads MC22 rebuild

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by thebeefsalad, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    The basket case engine is being cleaned up before having it's upper case half welded back together. In the mean time I have parts on order and am researching special tools. Spent about an hour digging through the factory service manual. What they consider common and special tools I disagree with, but I digress. I didn't find much that I would need other than the socket for the head bolts, as well as the spanner nut socket for the clutch. I've dug through the bags/box of parts and am not spotting anything that looks like I need a special tool, but the boxes were all but destroyed so who knows what all I may be missing (2 valve shims known, lulz!). But I'd rather ask the community for their wisdom than find out that I'll have to wait for a tool to arrive when I realize I looked something over ;) Searched here, didn't come up with much other than this.

    Basket case shims/lifters/camshaft clamps all came in one ziplock bag :mad:. I know how to sort through the shim sizing but measuring the lifters and their respective bores is literally and figuratively outside of my tool-set. I don't own snap gauges or a micrometer, and am not practiced at using either. Here's hoping the expense of paying someone else to check their sizing doesn't result in a finding that the pockets are beyond spec. Then again, I have the same hopes for the pistons :D.
     
  2. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    A micrometer would be money well spent. Hondas usually run very good tolerances. I think you can just match the lifters to the head by feel.
     
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  3. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Messed with that idea for a bit a few months back. Only had to play musical lifters with 4 to get them to a spot that felt good, what I'm calling good here was that the lifter did not feel tight in the bore. Beyond that I wouldn't know what a worn out bore/lifter feels like.
     
  4. gregt

    gregt Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    With the head and buckets clean and dry, put a light spring under the bucket and insert it into the bore.
    Push it down to approx half- lift and try to wobble it in the bore.
    I'll be surprised if you can - I've dealt with bucket and shim setups for decades now and only if there's been a seizure or damage from a dropped valve have I found an unusable bore....
     
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  5. DannoXYZ

    DannoXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Valve compressor comes in handy. I made my own from big C-clamp and some tubing.
     
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  6. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Factory Service Manual, Page 7-9, mentions reaming the guide to remove carbon before checking the bore diameter. Tool mentioned (07984-884000) apears to be NLA and I'm finding very few references on the internet as to what size reamer it is. If I had to guess, I would say 4mmx88mm buuuuuut that doesn't line up with other honda reamers I have found. That being said, what is the suggested method for removing carbon from valve guides before checking guide dimension?

    p.s. can the title be changed to "beefsalads mc22 rebuild" and moved to the projects page? If not, I'll start a new thread there for all the fun I suspect I'll be having with this project.
     
  7. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I use a piece of heavy clutch cable, flaired a bit on the end and put in a drill to spin. Doesn't need much to clean guides.
     
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  8. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to post this yesterday apparently....

    Hit the 2nd closest machine shop on my lunch break to see if he was willing to do some small/odd jobs for me. He informed me he was more than willing to cut the cam gears that day, but that was followed up with 'had I not loaned out my rotary table'. I digress, that's for a different bike. He said he was willing to check the specs on the head for me, and I could drop it off at any time.

    Feeling inspired after work, I finished stripping parts of the head last night. Water pipes were a real bitch, but I'm not surprised with 30yo o-rings and corroded pipes. One dowel popped out no problem, the other made me wish I had invested in a pin puller years ago but I was able to extract it after the right incantation of curse words. Exhaust studs came out without an issue, and much to my surprise the exhaust gaskets stayed in place. I don't know what all happened when this engine was shipped, but I can say I'm lucky to have the bulk of the parts even though 2 of the 3 boxes were near destroyed, the 3rd still had holes punched in it but at least that box didn't fall apart when I cut the tape. Going to try and drop the head off for cleaning on my lunch break.
     
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  9. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Dropped the head off for cleaning today. Love going to Duffin Engine . Couple of antiques frequently behind the front desk. They looked at the head and casually asked what it was from. Lead to discussion of the rc166, etc... They offered to bead blasted and I hesitated then told them not to. If I'm going through it at this level, I may as well make it pretty too, right? What can I have done that would look right, clean up easy, and not turn into odd colored splotchy crap 3 years down the road?
     
  10. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    What is cutting the cam gears about?
    As for the head, I would block all oil galleries with silicone plugs and tape up water galleries with aluminium tape. Then wet/vapour blast.
    As for keeping it looking good, if you spray your engine with WD40 or similar then the next time you wash it, it will come clean. Then spray it again.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Set squish closer to optimal on my klx110, which retarded the cam timing about a degree. Need to get that degree back to get to split timing, and wouldn't mind trying to advance the cam timing 4-8 degrees to see how the engine behaves on the track. The bike rarely has a need to top out a gear, so wouldn't mind picking up grunt on the bottom/mid. The occasions where I do need top end (1, maybe 2 races a year?) I can revert back to split timing.
     
  12. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Bit of a shameless plug here but oh well.
    klx110? I'm lost
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  13. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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  14. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Those parts and a few more arrived yesterday. Darn fast shipping from Thailand to here!
     
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  15. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Okay, I thought we were talking about MC22's. As for the shipping, most express services are running well and that was a way to say thanks for your help with getting reamer from the states. :)
     
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  16. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    I'm bad about keeping my train of thought in line. MC22 one second, KLX the next, ysr somewhere in between somehow...
     
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  17. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    De-carbonized the valves, then twiddled my thumbs pondering my next move. Decided to sort out some of the bag of bolts/misc hardware. Missing 1 of the external head bolts that is not available here, ugh! Been searching fische/manual to figure out where this pin 16x4mm pin goes for the last couple of hours.
     
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  18. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Still no clue where that pin goes. Hoping it will be obvious when I get to that where it belongs. Really looks like a roller bearing, but I have yet to find any bearings missing a roller. Pulled everything but the transmission bearing and water pipe off of the upper case half. Bearing is 2nd in line, water pipe is stuck and a pain to get hold of and pry behind it. Any suggestions on how to remove it? I scraped away a bit of rust where I could get near the seals (of course it's less that half) but I haven't been able to get it to turn or pull it out.
     
  19. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Also did I overlook removal of the bearing in the upper case half not described in the transmission section? Case half will need to be welded up and cleaned so it needs to come out. Blind hole so the bread trick could work, but I have yet to find a way to work with the engine on it's side that doesn't require at least a 3rd hand. I do have a slide hammer, but I don't think I can get behind the bearing.
     
  20. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Heating the case and dropping onto a wooden block/table to get the bearing to move then get slide hammer behind it.
     
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