Hey guys I v ran into a few issues regarding my Across, its a bit of a story, but I have to explain everything. At this point, I m getting to end of my tether with this thing and I have no other clues as to what it could be. Bought it second hand a few weeks ago, and it was working fine. The owners mentioned that it failed to start a week earlier, so they got it serviced and it worked again. Also that it took a significant amount of time to warm up. I left it for a week so I could get my license in order, and it wouldn't start. So we changed the spark plugs that were carbon fouled. It started puttering to life, however this time there was an additional hissing sort of sound coming from the clutch area, and worse the power to revs ratio was abysmal, requiring 12,000 revs to get it to launch and as soon as the clutch would drop almost for the engine to stall. Had a chat to local mechanic who said it would be an issue with the carburetor, either the slides or the jets may be blocked. Cracked it open had a look, the slides were fine but some of the jets had some minor blocking, cleaned it all. Checked the fuel pump, and the fuel lines, air filter. All was good. Tried starting it again, wouldn't start, tried push starting and it finally started. Had trouble getting it to idle at a comfortable rev range, rode it around for while and the rev to power ratio improved greatly. This time only required 7000 revs to launch. However the hissing sound from the clutch area still remained. Left it overnight, tried starting it this morning and after a heap of failed attempts had to push start, that worked and it all warmed up enough after ten minutes so that we could start it with out a push start. At this point I have no idea as to what the issue could be, the mechanics keep telling me the same stuff (Carbies or plugs) but both are fine. Any suggestions as to what it could be would be greatly appreciated. Its my first bike and dont really want to pass it on to some other poor sod or having it sit in the shed for ages.
G'day mate Welcome to the forum, hope we can assist in getting you on the road! Have perused what you have put up so far, am going to ask a few question. Have you checked fuel filter between fuel pump and carbs, if blocked could cause issue in turn restrict fuel supply. What is happening with the choke, no mention of that at all. I would check choke operation closely. You mention long period to warm bike up, has the thermostat possibly been removed by previous owner??? As for strange sound from clutch area, would check clutch movement and operation as the rev range you mention to launch is way to high! last thing would be to check that you are getting spark from each plug, could be faulty led. Keep us posted.
With all the starting attempts I would put the battery on a charger so its at full strength. How old is the fuel? ...and is it using the right RON/octane for an Across? Have u looked in the fuel tank for crud/rust? ..... it will probably have internal filters that may be half blocked. Something like this... Take the ends off the spark leads (they should screw off) and check the condition of the internals of the leads...better still buy new ones. Checking the operation of the choke is definately a goer. Multi carbs need to be balanced .....also check the "mixture" screw is correctly adjusted. Another clean wont go astray...did u blow them out with compressed air? Clutch....hmmmm......start by making sure the cable is working freely and the freeplay is adjusted correctly at the bars and if theres adjustment at the motor end. Most bikes share the engine oil with the clutch and gearbox so make sure someone hasnt used car oil with friction modifiers as your clutch will slip......or maybe its very low on oil. Dont take any notice of previous owners ...or mechanics for that matter,especially if they arnt even working on the bike. Old bikes = lotsa issues ...especially when the previous owners havnt bothered with looking after them.......have a look at my Fizzer thread and u will see what can be found "under the covers" :Thumbs_up:
Thanks guys! once my mate gets back after the weekend, we ll check it all out (hes teaching me how to wrench on the bike) In terms of the choke, it seems normal. But in saying that I hadn't ridden the bike much before I got my license. However, after the bike warms up after a while I can take it off and the bike will idle. In regard the to the spark plugs, it was just a passing thought I had, we had some issues with getting the leads to the right plugs as they weren't labeled. We assumed they were in the right spots as there was some combustion going on, would that also be a contributing factor to the loss of power? In terms of fuel, I v being using premium unleaded 98 from Bp, we pumped the old fuel out via the fuel pump to check if it was the tank, and it was clean. I didnt use compressed air to blow out the jets. Again, thanks guys. I ll get back with results as soon as I can. Cheers!
Has it been misfiring or backfiring? Its very important to have the leads on correctly so that it fires in order. Heres a few comments on fuel usage...I would get the leads sorted and try 91RON http://2fiftycc.com/http://www.2fiftycc.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1 :wave:
Last time we started it (yesterday) from cold it was back firing quite a lot , once it got warm however it stopped. Is there a diagram or something which indicates the correct layout of the leads? I v been looking through the workshop manual and the owners manual and it hasn't suggested anything.
check the simple things in life. you changed the plugs, did you do the leads as well??? if you remove one of the plugs and put it against the rocker cover, do you see the a blue spark across the plug? do each of them one at a time. make sure all plugs spark. new leads for the across you make yourself from 7mm multicore lead wire.they just screw in to the plug cap as well as the coil.if the leads are shot, your wasting your time.make sure you battery is fully charged as well. and make sure your using frush fuel and your fuel filter isnt clogged. cover the basics first. bike cant start if no fuel/air, no spark or weak spark
my across has been having issues with it for ages, im fixxing it permanetly with one of these :Thumbs_up:
haha nice. no worries, I ll change them over for good measure. I take it the lead wires can just be picked up from super cheap or equivalent?
Have u looked real close to see if theres a number stamped on the lead or the cap ? Hopefully an Across owner will jump in here and tell u. :icon_scratch: Id say its similar to the Fizzer....with twin coils....1 coil sparks 1 and 4 cylinder and the other 2 and 3 Cylinders are from the left sitting on bike 1,2,3,4 Edit: you can have the greatest spark in the world but u may as well be whistling dixie if the leads are messed up..... :hello2: Ozbiker ,how about u tell him which lead goes to wat plug :wave:
dear, dear me.... have you guys forgotten about the incredible resource i have put together for the across http://www.scribd.com/collections/3672317/Suzuki-GSX250F-Across-Service-manuals-scan-2012 grab the manual and have a read.i cant remember what lead goes where.but in the book it shows you where the leads go and how to correctly route them. the lead wire for the across is just plain lead wire, looks just like this stuff http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230777676926?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 but make sure its *NOT* single core wire, get the multicore stuff. i payed $8 per meter for it locally, get 2 meters of it. if the spark plug caps are stuffed heres some handy info i found kicking round on the interwebs ===================================================== Replaced the spark plugs - old old ones looked OK but were NGK C7HSA instead of NGK CR7HSA The C7HSA is perfectly acceptable for the Across, the only difference is you will interfere with your neighbours TV reception ===================================================== can also use NGK SZ05F http://www.carpartsaustralia.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=13750 oem -33510-48B10 - cap assembly - spark plug used by following AN400 (2007) AN400 (2008) AN400AK9 (2007) AN400AK9 (2008) AN400AK9 (2009) AN400AL1 (2011) AN400K7 (2007) AN400K7 (2008) AN400K7 (2009) AN400K8 (2007) AN400K8 (2008) AN400K8 (2009) AN400K9 (2007) AN400K9 (2008) AN400K9 (2009) AN400L1 (2011) AN400ZAL1 (2011) AN400ZAL2 (2012) ANA400AL2 (2012) DR-Z400 (2000) DR-Z400 (2001) DR-Z400 (2002) DR-Z400 (2003) DR-Z400 (2004) DR-Z400E (2000) DR-Z400E (2001) DR-Z400E (2002) DR-Z400E (2003) DR-Z400E (2004) DR-Z400E (2005) DR-Z400E (2006) DR-Z400E (2007) DR-Z400S (2000) DR-Z400S (2001) DR-Z400S (2002) DR-Z400S (2003) DR-Z400S (2004) DR-Z400S (2005) DR-Z400S (2006) DR-Z400S (2007) DR-Z400S (2008) DR-Z400S (2009) DR-Z400SL1 (2011) DR-Z400SL2 (2012) DR-Z400SM (2005) DR-Z400SM (2006) DR-Z400SM (2007) DR-Z400SM (2008) GSF1200 (2001) GSF1200 (2002) GSF1200 (2003) GSF1200 (2004) GSF1200 (2005) GSF1200S (1997) GSF1200S (1998) GSF1200S (1999) GSF1200S (2000) GSF1200S (2001) GSF1200S (2002) GSF1200S (2003) GSF1200S (2004) GSF1200S (2005) GSF400 (1993) GSF400P (1991) GSF400P (1992) GSF400P (1993) GSF600S (2000) GSF600S (2001) GSF600S (2002) GSF600S (2003) GSF600S-BANDIT (1996) GSF600S-BANDIT (1997) GSF600S-BANDIT (1998) GSF600S-BANDIT (1999) GSX-R1100 (1986) GSX-R1100 (1987) GSX-R1100 (1988) GSX-R750L (1988) GSX-R750L (1989) GSX-R750L (1990) GSX1100F (1993) GSX1100FP (1988) GSX1100FP (1989) GSX1100FP (1990) GSX1100FP (1991) GSX1100FP (1992) GSX1100FP (1993) GSX600F (1993) GSX600F (1998) GSX600F (1999) GSX600F (2000) GSX600F (2001) GSX600F (2002) GSX600F (2003) GSX600F (2004) GSX600F (2005) GSX600F (2006) GSX600FT (1988) GSX600FT (1989) GSX600FT (1990) hope this helps
Yup, the coil on the left fires #1 and #4, the one on the right fires #2 and #3, the length of each should make it obvious which is which (as in #4 will be longer than #1 and #2 will be longer than #3).Or the inside lead of each coil goes the furthest away. Also reset the idle mixture screws back to factory, 1.5 turns out (dont do them up tight, just go to where you feel them getting tight then back out). I'm having idling issues with mine currently but nothing like yours.
evening gents. sorry about the late reply, had to work the entire weekend. Any way, managed to tinker with the bike this arvo. Looked at the fuel filter, had a small amount of dust on the base and one or two flecks on the filtres but nothing I thought would be of major concern. However when I was draining the tank there was far less petrol coming out then what I had out in, when all its done had gone 10km's and a lot of attempts at starting up. I then moved on to actually testing the spark plugs, out of all of them 4 had the weakest spark and was fairly fickle but it was mostly blue. 3, was more consistant with a slightly bigger spark but was more white of a spark. It was when I got onto 2 that when I pulled it out it was coated pretty well in oil. (when i looked it up, something with oil getting into the combustion chamber, caused by broken piston rings.) I went ahead with testing it anyway. And the result kind of tripped me out. ??? the spark coming off it was much larger the 3, 4 and it was sparking far more, hoever it was mostly white and I couldnt see any blue. But that wasnt the crazy part, the bike was turning over much better and actually started and got to the point that it was idling. It didnt hold it for long, but it was the first time its started up in such a way since it first died. been proper stumped, I kept going onto 1. it had a small amount of oil on it as well. It had similar results to 2 but I didnt persist into making it start. I want to replace all the ignition leads and heads for the plugs anyway, that may be a contributing factor as to why 3, 4 are having issues. But could it possibly be that because 1, 2 are having issues that they would be affecting 3, 4? cheers again guys!
forgot to mention, when I was testing 1 and 2, when it was turning over it sounded far healthier then what it was before.
Could still be a carb issue if the firing order and ignition are good. 1&2 share the same carb. But it is still odd that #2 had oil on the plug, unless it's rediculously rich. Compression testing will let ya know if the rings in #2 are good or bad.
And it sounds to me like the leads/caps and their connections are dicey if its all over the shop and they "improved" after/during moving them about......definately replace them all. I would replace the fuel filter as well as it could be clogged and its just too fine to see.
just replaced the spark plug caps on 3 and 4 and the bike is working now. I m just going to go through and check the choke and eventually get a compression test and a fuel filter change for good measure.
Clean fuel coupled with good spark = good explosion!! Think your on the right track. Same old story, out of site, out of mind. Leads and caps tend to get forgotten because they are tucked away. Hope the rest goes well.
i would replace all leads and plugs and be done with it. once replaced you wont see any issues from it until the coil pack fails :Thumbs_up:
