A typical beginner

Hi I'm Conza, I'm thinking of getting into Motorcycles for track riding, haven't decided on which one yet, so feel free to reply with 'I picked x and it rocked/sucked' would really appreciate that info, will look around here too.  I respect those who use them on roads, mostly your bravery and can understand the benefits of fuel efficiency, parking, purchase cost, insurance(?), etc, but I'm hoping not to be sucked into making a bike my daily commute, just want to be someone who can use and appreciate both types of machines.

Love cars, can drive boats, but for me, motorcycles are my final vehicle frontier, once I know how to use them, I feel that all of the vehicles I want to learn control will be covered, except maybe fighter jets, tanks and space shuttles

I found this site by looking for a review/comparison of a Daelim VJF250 and a Honda CBR250R, still undecided but am leaning CBR atm, but will obviously need a learner's permit before I really need to decide anyway, despite this being '2fiftycc.com' I'm still open to smaller bikes for a first purchase, especially some of the Aprilla offerings.

Also an avid MotoGP fan, which may sound strange since I haven't really ridden Motorcycles yet, but imo that sport ruins all car racing sports (to watch) 45-50 minutes, no pits, no team orders, bam, you're done, also can have spectacular passing; I've been watching since 2003 and am another evil Rossi fan My Dad is/was a Stoner fan, so that's a good rivalry.

Hope to learn more about bikes and riding while I'm here.

 

Wow, lots of replies, thanks for that guys.

I guess when it comes to choices there aren't many I'm dead against, can't get the new Yamaha 125 because they'll be a 250 next year, so 6k today and it'll be worth 3.5k as soon as that 250 arrives (which is irritating, but what can you do).

The 695 Monster thing from Ducati is out too, way too big and ugly.

What got my attention initially was a Megelli, great looking, such a shame they are made in China, which pretty much ends them for me.

I'm also not that hot for the 4T Aprilia, their 2T might be good, last of a generation, huge power to weight, and then when I move up to a bigger 4T I can always say I know the difference; but it'd promise to be very difficult to ride, with all the power up above 9000rpm and also the oil requirements :S

Daelim is a serious contender, only thing is it's down on torque a little bit, so that may be harder to learn on, idk, and the styling isn't what I'd call beautiful, but I don't mind it, also resale is unknown.

Which of course leads me to 'the' favourite, even amongst you guys here, the good ol' Kwaka, which if I'm considering the Aprilia 2T, then I really should consider one of their Ninjas, something about 300cc is intriguing, and they hold their value as well as the Hondas or better, will definitely be putting a leg over when the time comes.

I might consider older bikes, but when the new ones are so cheap, with warranties, and amazingly high resale value, relative to cars anyway, it'd have to be something special and out of the ordinary, a Cagiva Mito comes to mind, some of them look just like their larger Ducati counter parts from the same years, they are getting long in the tooth, but in term of exotic (e.g. Italian) entry level bikes, they could be great.

That's just the obvious ones, there all sorts of other brands to at least try, Hyosung GT250R, CFMoto V-Night, Suzuki GS500F (if I can find one) and probably more.

So the CBR does still seem the obvious to learn on even if it isn't the obvious to track with, but it's all a matter of getting the time to get the permit first, then I can understand what I'm doing, and hopefully look at all of the potentials from there.

If I've missed any obvious modern Super Sports/Touring please let me know, I guess some of the late 90s Japanese, but especially Italian bikes would also be making the (long) short list, the Ducati 400SS won't be though, just that little bit too old.

 

Guess I'm now an AAtypical beginner.  My benefactor (father) has persuaded me that a Super Motard will be a better choice to begin with than a Super Sports.  There's some pretty serious plus points.

Comparing a Honda CBR250R's 24BHP at 160kg to a Husqvana SMR 449's 55BHP at 118kg.

So that's double the power, and much more power to weight, also easier to ride, potentially faster through the corners, only downside is price, but its buy for 5k sell for 4k (CBR) vs. buy for 8k sell for 7k (SMR), so ultimately you're no better/worse off at the end.

Also, there's apparently a racing league for these bikes, so I'm struggling to see too many downsides.
Lack of choice, there's only two models from Hasqvarna a 449 or a 511, and the only other contenders are a Yamaha 250 (20 more kgs, 20 less bhp, no cost benefit), a Sachs (less power again and more weight again, but atleast half price) then a Suzuki DR-Z400 SM (heavier, less power), and that's about it without looking at the used bike market.

Downsides, obviously ugliness, but given how much faster the are (below 200KPH, which is likely their maximum speed... still higher than mine whilst learning I have to say), it's forgiven.
Tacho/instruments.  As far as I can tell on this bike, very poor simply due to size, might be so bad I'll look into a small cheap GPS which could give me my speed, still won't know about the RPM, might have to learn it by ear/feel.

So that might be the end of my 250 Super Sport endeavour, I will be looking to get a larger Super Sport at the end of my learner permit period, but not until 2014/15 and that's only if I don't get sucked into these bikes and simply want a larger one of these instead, the dream is still a Super Sports bike, but I'm sure I'll encounter people willing to let me ride there's and I might not like em, who knows, a lot can happen in that time.  Oh, and since I won't be going off-road (though these things can obviously) I don't have to get the spicky dirt bike gear, can get road bike stuff, which is cool because I can keep it if/when I do get a Super Sports.

Anyone willing to try and talk me out of it? Am I missing something screamingly obvious that's going to make me go 'oh yeah' and re-re-think the whole thing?

 

Thanks Kiffsta, good advice, and a good suggestion with the KTM.  Problem is that the Husqvarna seems to be leaps and bounds above the others performance wise, so once you've started there, unless you feel an alternative is just as good, even at a lower price a slower bike is a slower bike.

The current thing is getting gear, not sure if anyone lives in the Melbourne area, and can point me to a place to get good stuff (Dainese and Alpinestars is virtually everything covered, with Shoei helmets), I've found two great local stores for stuff, but other than that I'm struggling to find more further out, most irritatingly, all of the places that are listing Husqvarna's either sell nothing, or sell Dirt bike gear (or very limited road stuff).

Any suggestions?

 

I'm going to end up being a 250 boy after all I think (have some questions third to last para below if you want to skip the history).
I've passed my Learners Permit today, did a pre-learner on Friday as well, both on a CBR125, nice little bike at 25kph, light, didn't like how jumpy the throttle was, but loved leaning it over, was just like I'd always imagined or even dreamed riding a motorcycle would be.

I've ended up going with the Husky initially, picked it up after learning to ride at my pre-learners course, my brother is also in on it, he came along for the pre-learners and learners too, he passed the permit test too, while I'm 6ft, he's 5'8" so he found the ~900mm Husky ride height too high, so he won't be keeping that very likely (the store has said on the second bike they're going to remove some inches from it, so he'll test that, but doubt it will work).
Trying to get that thing up and down the driveway compared to the CBR125 was very difficult.  The clutch was like; nothing, nothing, nothing, full on, and stall.  Took me... 20, maybe 30 starts just to get the thing going, and I eventually became comfortable with it (just taking off), but as soon as I did, wow, so much power, immediately at the end of my reasonably long driveway, and if I'm honest with myself, with basically no experience (I can count the hours on 1 hand), I am not good enough to ride that bike to it's maximum potential, and won't be for several years, if ever, so I don't think it's the wisest choice for 'this' learner.  I think for someone getting back into it, and/or especially with prior dirt bike experience, it'd be perfect.

There are two bikes at the moment, brand new, for the three of us, one with me the other at the store getting adjusted, (this might become three bikes if my brother decides he likes doing this stuff a lot).
It comes with some nice racing features for a track, adjustable suspension, huge 4-pot brembos, no fuel tank to smash your; plastic fairings that cost $80 compared to a CBRs $300-400 metal ones, and the point that I was sold on to begin with, more power and less weight than a CBR250R.  However, that's not the whole story.
It has no tacho, just a trip, lap, and digital speedo.  No neutral light, and it's twice as hard to get into neutral as a CBR125 (which wasn't easy either). It has an 'automatic' kick stand (doesn't lock either way, just a massive spring).  It also has a riding position 10cm higher! Than a CBR250/125/every other bike blah blah. (79X/78Xmm vs. 90Xmm or something).
So with my learners permit in hand, and a free day tomorrow, I think it's time to get on and start a demo CBR250R, I've got two bikes for comparison, see how I go from there.
You know, everything tells me, don't bother with the VJF250, but I still will if I can find one reasonably close enough.  The numbers may lie, or they may be accurate, in which case, it's a cheaper CBR250, which is a little better in some respects, not so much in others, and the price risk is A. reliability and B. resale (as I said before).

Not anymore.  I should probably at least try an Aprillia 4T, since I have a relationship with a store that sells one, but it's a 125, and it might not be a justified prejudice, but just because of top speed, less economical, less torque. idk

Other than that, it's all the same as before, except now I can test them all.
Oh a couple of questions if you're still reading (thank you for that).
CB400s, what's the story? Naked Bikes, inline 4s, anyone tried one? Anyone not put off by their near double price tag or 40kg+ weight? Most powerful LAMS bike? Is it double the bike? Not convinced, might try one? (I'm going to be a track day guy, not road go-er).

The CBR250R SE(s), especially the Mugen and Moriwaki (if I could get it today I'd have the Mugen's paint with the Moriwaki's pipe), worth the wait and extra cash? Or is it just some nice paint and an after-market exhaust?

http://motorcycles.honda.com.au/Supersports/CBR250R_Special_Edition

 

Would've editted it, but can't find the button?  Thought I managed too before?

Love the CBR250R.  I don't care that it's only got half the power, and weighs 1/3 more, its beautiful.  Gear changes are lovely and smooth, its forgiving, you can be riding along at very slowly, and it'll start to shake if you're going to stall 'please speed up before I choke sir'.  It's lower, it looks cooler, I'm a sold customer really.

You know what really did it? Giving the 449 a proper test.

ermagahd... In the driveway, it seemed ok... look suffice to say, I'm sure its great, probably superior in many ways to the CBR250R, all of the above, but, I don't want it, I can't thrash it without dire consequences, it jerks even when just easing off the throttle slowly, I can't f :angry8: *&%^g find neutral until about 5 goes, it makes the devils own raquet, even stationary?! Not that I know what it's idiling at.  Going at 20 odd, no rear brake, fully out of the clutch and keeping the throttle steady, it was jerking (minorly) backward and forward? It might've had a pre-programmed rev limiter in it, its hard to tell without a tacho.

Enough bitching about it, now to scour the CBR250R forums to find which one I want and all the rest of it, and who'll do me the best price, ect. Onward the journey continues.

 

It's probably logical to do so since I'm 99% convinced to change, if I'm going through all of the hassle, there's a place I know that sells both, they'll probably let me have a go on both so I can tell the difference too, assuming they have two demos ect.

My main concern is torque, one of my favourite things with the CBR, it just didn't want to stall, had to be parked, in first, and drop the clutch with no revs, and then all I got was a small *cough* and the engine was off. Otherwise even I think at 5-6kph in first it was lightly shuddering and with a small rev it went back along nicely.

 

The plot thickens again (for Kiffsta and others reading, maybe this is interesting, who knows).

Am still in love with the CBR 250 R, however, unless it's terribly worse in some way, a Aprilia RS4 180* (the new 4T), might be a decent alternative.

It has a couple of things going for it, ignore price, it's a grand or so more, but you'd be surprised to think you might end up with a faster better bike.

Once again, 135kg to the CBRs 160kg however this is before the race kit, that could add more weight, I doubt it'd be 30kgs more though.
At 125, it starts out at a tame 17BHP, however, that number goes up to 25BHP, which is virtually as much as the CBR, but hopefully still lighter, although, it'll be more mid-top end range (10,000rpm or something).

It has the option of a quick shift, which as far as I understand it, allows you to shift up without using the clutch AND keeping full throttle? (it cuts the throttle and engages the clutch as you move the selector, correct me if I've mis-interpreted that).

Finally, it looks beautiful, three headlights are simply better than one, red and black, or even white, I like more than even the Red/silver CBR.

Potential/ Downsides.  Slimmer tyres front and rear; no bullet proof engineering, that beautiful cradling torque of the CBR, even after making it a 180, I don't think will be there, its raised slightly higher (820mm vs. 780mm, my brother was uncomfortable at 900mm, so 820mm might be ok).  Resale is unknown as it's a new bike, it has a lower top speed (stock), and costs more and more frigging around.

Also, when I test it, I doubt I could test one that had already been bored out, I'm also unsure if it works with the LAMS formula, mind you, the new CBR500 does, and so does the Husky, so I think it might be in a still lower performing territory than both of them, so I think it'll be ok.

Anyone consider this? Guess if I go this way I'm not really a 250 boy anymore, also 180, what a weird size huh? Leaving it as a 125, honestly, can't see myself liking it that much, I'll test it and who knows, I'll keep an open mind, I did sort of like the CBR 125.

Last thing, there was a british test (MCN or something?) comparing this (stock) the Yamaha 125, CBR 125, and some other Yamaha copy bike.  This had the lowest top speed, but was the fastest around the track.  Give it more power, and it'd kill those guys, just wish I could manufactur a test between the race version and a CBR, that'd be fun to see.

EDIT: Ah! One last thing.  Any reason not to add the race kit? the resale value is already unknown, would this lower it? Yes, I understand it might make it harder to ride, so to what degree that occurs might be good to know, anyway.

 

Ok, I've gone with the RS4 125

Rode it today, no appreciable difference to the CBR 250 R, atleast below 50kph.  I mean it's lighter, has better brakes, and less torque/power, but it wasn't shuddering stupidly at sub-10kph speeds, and bonus, it has a quick shifter, which was so much fun! REV-SHIFT-REV, instead of REV-CLUTCH-SHIFT-ClUTCH-REV, worked pretty well, kinda like a sporto-matic, doesn't work on downshifts.

So a I'm a 125 boy after all, guess that's more european, who knows how long I'll keep it, but it looks great, is that much lighter, and if I really want to keep it longer and not upgrade, I'll tune it, hopefully that mythical race kit that only a few journalists have spoken about comes into existence, that'll give me more options.  If I got it up to 25 (bbk + ecu) or even higher with a pipe, it'd kill all the others power to weight wise, its 135kgs WET I believe, I've read 120kg dry and 135kgs dry, but I think that its 135kgs weight wet with a full tank (14.5 litres) - who knows, please prove me wrong if you've found the info elsewhere

Otherwise, very happy, went for the Red/Black, not the race replica (as above, Rossi fan, so I dislike Biaggi, he's was the typical baddie on the 'Rossi Show' of 01-05), the other bike is the Red/White, with a bunch of stickers on it, which looks great too.

Thanks for everyone's feedback, especially Kiffsta/Chris.

On a side note, while this forum is great, all nice people, I've been to some others, probably shouldn't name names, but some people are just pricks, usually people even younger than I am! saying 'you're dead wrong, shut up and live with it' without providing facts!? I mean it's one thing if they prove me wrong, and I still carry on, but one bloke's like 'you've been told before' - some people eh?