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Project beefsalads MC22 rebuild

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by thebeefsalad, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    I use Mint on a couple of older PCs (32 and 64-bit versions). Works fine and plenty quick enough for what I need, which is mostly web work. I'm surprised more people don't use Mint. The GUI makes usage very easy for any none-terminal/command line folks. Once upon a time I worked with AIX, SCO Unix and the PICK O/S. And long before that on a DEC PDP10 and 11 running Unix. It was amazing how many Australian businesses had a Unix-based box (not just an IBM box) in their buildings. If I recall correctly, at one stage Australia had more Unix 'users' than any other country in the world (per capita maybe?). I guess when there's a lot of older people on a forum like ours, eventually our skeletons will emerge from their closets! Great to read other members posts and have memories come flooding back. Back to @thebeefsalad and his CBR.
     
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  2. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    I used to work in IT support , so it is windows for me , but 90 % of what I do now is on my iPhone or iPad , almost everything is done on a browser these days

    I have my aix cert somewhere , good old IBM p series

    Back to the mc22
     
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  3. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Thank goodness, I haven't understood a word of the last few posts. :lolsign:
     
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  4. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Geeky boy chat, goes a bit like this 0010010010001001011010010101101011110101010
     
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  5. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Head bolts Torque To Yield? Have new ones on hand and intend to use them, but I'll be damned if I've noticed anywhere in the factory service manual that they call for new bolts in the head anywhere. Someone posted on up fakebile about swapping out a head gasket and 2 people parroted about torque to yield/new bolts so I'm wondering if I looked over some crucial step (not that I'm anywhere near that step)
     
  6. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I might be incorrect in this, but from experience, doing heads on two engines which had torque to yield head bolts which had to be replaced, and reading that I've also done, bolts are torque to yield if you torque them to a value and then put another twist on them, say 90 degrees as a final step

    Other details that I've seen were on the ARP website where they have a gauge where you measure the stretch on installing, they were torque to yield also
     
  7. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    I assume they are screwing into aluminium. Won't be much in the way of bolt stretch happening, if that is what you are referring to.
     
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  8. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Correct, I should have considered that before asking but glad the 'collective wisdom' brought it up!
     
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  9. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Torque to yield sounds like a bit of fallacy to me. The yield point beyond which the material (bolt) does not return to its original state when the load is removed. It is usually good engineering practice with any design to build in a reasonable factor of safety.
    You would not usually use a fastener that when tighten to the specified amount could not sustain the required clamping force under all foreseeable circumstances (production variations, material variations, service shop general practice, age, etc).

    Tightening a bolt up to the point where it just continues to stretch and not apply any more force (beyond the yield point) seems like a pointless exercise to me.

    If the old bolts are within spec for length, then they have not stretched and have been used correctly (not taken beyond their yield point).

    As @maelstrom implied, there could well be other things that yield before the bolt.

    Here is a handy little fastener tightening table that some might find useful.

    [​IMG]

    Note the difference between dry and lubricated joints.

    Peter.
     
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  10. Gen

    Gen Well-Known Member

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    When refitting a carillo 'rod to my 175 single LSR bike one of the cap bolts made cracking sounds while I was torquing it down (it had done 6 miles) , I replaced both cap bolts real quick !
     
  11. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Finally pulled that blind transmission bearing tonight. Started using the bread trick, driving the bread with a 3/8"x6" extension. Extension was the perfect size, if not a bit snug in the inner race. Bearing ended up wiggling out stuck to the extension instead of being forced out by the bread. :drinks:
     
  12. jmw76

    jmw76 Well-Known Member

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    Bread?? Well you learn something new every day.
    I usually use grease.
     
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  13. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Grease would probably be more friendly to the oil hole hidden behind the bearing, but I'm confident the bread will blow out once I clean up the case halves.
     
  14. risky

    risky risky

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    never heard of bread being used like that before, normally grease. bread is handy when plumbing to keep water back when soldering.
     
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  15. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Finally talked myself into scraping off the oil pan gasket. It was the only gasket that didn't split between the parts but I have a fresh one on hand. I swear the last time I tried permatex gasket remove it didn't work for ****, but this time it only took 3 applications with a 10 minute wait to remove 99.something% of the gasket, the rest feels to be flush with the case and I can almost see the metal under it. Only a little bit of gasket scraping remains for the bottom case half as the shift mechanism cover came out split between the two parts. Hope to get the case halves out for cleaning next week.

    Still need to dig into the N motors transmission to see if it looks like the R transmission. One of the gears either lacked inspection during the assembly, or the transmission munched something. The rest of the gears have a nice bevel, but this one...well, I wish pictures would show what I'm seeing. Partial bevel but points sticking up at the end? Not sure how that could happen with my understanding of how gears would be machined.
     
  16. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Spent a considerable amount of time trying to get a picture of what I'm seeing in the transmission. I'll be damned if I can get a decent macro shot with this phone but I think this picture shows it well even if it's out of focus. I don't see similar damage on the mating gear on the other shaft so...wtf? Checked the transmission from the N motor and it doesn't show the same issue so I'll either swap the whole assembly or look into swapping out that gear.

    wtf-gear.jpg
     
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  17. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Either the matching gear was replaced before, or some foreign object got into the gearbox and got munched. It definitely looks like damage though.
     
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  18. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    As if things weren't going slow enough, conrod nuts/bolts appear to be NLA. FFFFFFFfffffffffffffffffffffff
     
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  19. ruckusman

    ruckusman White Mans Magic Master Premium Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Well some good news for you, recall when we were searching for replacements for the FZR250 and the MC22's were the perfect candidates, well the ZXR250 conrod bolts and nuts should do the trick AND they are available from impex, actually available

    Specs and measurements are in this thread
    https://www.2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/fzr250-rebuild-but-cant-source-conrod-bolts.11456/

    Specifically
    https://www.2fiftycc.com/index.php?...-source-conrod-bolts.11456/page-3#post-144072
     
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  20. thebeefsalad

    thebeefsalad Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! The conrod bolt was linked, but not the nut. My usual method of tracking down matching components (search cmsnl/ronayers, check fitment) returned 0 results. googled the part # for the bolt, found a hit on japan.webike.net, looks like those were used on a balius. went to the balius fische and believe this is the part # for the nut 92015-1769. Can you confirm that is correct @ruckusman?
     
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