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Help Honda VT 250 starting issues

Discussion in 'Honda 250cc Twins' started by Mike Fulcher, Apr 21, 2018.

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  1. Mike Fulcher

    Mike Fulcher Active Member

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    Can anyone out there help me? I have an 87 Jap. spec. Honda VT 250. I can't get the engine to run.
    I'm a qualified Mechanic, but this was back before the electronic age.
    The old story of the three things to check Iv'e done, the engine has good compression on both cylinders, has spark, have put two new plugs in it, & have even tried priming the carb, with not only fresh fuel into the venturies but with an ether based engine start spray.
    I'm guessing something is wrong with the ignition timing, but before I start replacing expensive CDI's coils etc has any one had a similar problem that may be able to set me on the right track to solve this problem?
    Cheers
    Mike.
     
    Mike Fulcher, Apr 21, 2018
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  2. Midnightlight

    Midnightlight Active Member

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    I'd check that you're getting spark to the right cylinders, sounds like you've got the compression and fuel to get things running.
     
    Midnightlight, Apr 21, 2018
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  3. Mike Fulcher

    Mike Fulcher Active Member

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    Iv'e tried that to, by reversing the HT leads.
    Cheers.
     
    Mike Fulcher, Apr 21, 2018
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  4. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Check that the pickup coil isn't damaged
     
    Linkin, Apr 21, 2018
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  5. Mike Fulcher

    Mike Fulcher Active Member

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    I thought if that was the case then there would be no spark, but hey I have not taken off the engine cover yet to inspect that.
     
    Mike Fulcher, Apr 21, 2018
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  6. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I only mentioned it because I have seen bike with good spark, but the cover had been replaced with a new one, stator and pickup coil etc installed and it wouldn't run. After much troubleshooting the cover was taken back off (retracing steps etc) and the pickup coil was mangled and its mounting bracket were bent.
     
    Linkin, Apr 21, 2018
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  7. Mike Fulcher

    Mike Fulcher Active Member

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    Thanks, I'll check that ASAP
     
    Mike Fulcher, Apr 21, 2018
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  8. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I would be careful with the ether based start fluid.. I have seen it flood spark out of the bike and kill plugs.
    If it is the same as the later VTR the petcock is a vacuum unit so until the bike actually runs it wont pull any fuel through.
    The VTR250's I had were dead easy to start once you had some good fuel.. Try a bottle of fuel hooked up to the fuel line, that way you are not having to worry about the tank etc being in the way.
    Generally if you have compression, spark and fuel it should run.
     
    Andych, Apr 21, 2018
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  9. Mike Fulcher

    Mike Fulcher Active Member

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    Thanks for the advice, but I bypassed this procedure by injecting fuel straight into the carbs throats.
    I haven't even had a crackle of an exhaust fire.
    I still believe it is an ignition timing problem, I will take the timing cover off and inspect the pickup Sensors as suggested.
    & go from there.
     
    Mike Fulcher, Apr 22, 2018
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  10. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I still wouldnt bypass what I suggested... it has been known that "injecting" fuel straight into the carbies can actually douse the flame... ie, flood it.
    Dont use Ether based products like Start You Bastard as they can kill spark plugs...
    Have you checked the condition of the carbies? How long ago was it that the bike last ran?
    While you say you have compression... have you tested it?
    If you havent removed the timing cover before then it would be doubtful that the pickup is not right as you are getting spark.

    The other thing these bikes need is a good battery... but generally they start up nicely although it will need some choke initially.
    It is all info that will help us to help you.
     
    Andych, Apr 23, 2018
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  11. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Pull the spark plug's out and crank it over and look at the spark plug hole's, should be a fine mist of fuel/air mix coming out on each revolution
    You should clip the spark plug cap's to the plug's and sit them on the rocker cover or head so they'll earth out too, otherwise it may damage the cdi/tci

    If it's spitting fuel then it might be float height's, if there's nothing then you'll need to check things out more
    Are the spark plug's getting wet ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
    my67xr, Apr 23, 2018
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  12. Mike Fulcher

    Mike Fulcher Active Member

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    Look to be honest I purchased this bike Knowing it was a non runner, the previous owner did say it was a runner before parking it up. he also mentioned he & his mate had a bit of a mishap when welding a hole in the ride side engine cover with the engine still in the frame, basically there was a bit of an explosion, hence I'm wondering if there may have been some damage caused by this little adventure. So I also noticed that the oil was very thin, Yes the carbs had been leaking fuel into the crankcase.
     
    Mike Fulcher, Apr 24, 2018
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  13. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Given that bit of information I am surprised that you have any spark at all... could be all sorts of electrical issues but I would expect the CDI to be suspect... Were they TIG welding? What on earth were they thinking????
     
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    Andych, Apr 24, 2018
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  14. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Maybe they were making a fully sick custom exhaust system for it ? lol
    I might have to make one of them for my FZR myself,
    I can just imagine my neighbour's face when he heard me fire up and rev my FZR @ 18,500 rpm's over his 2.20m tall side fence

     
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    my67xr, Apr 24, 2018
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  15. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    What a c*ck!
     
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    Murdo, Apr 24, 2018
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  16. Andych

    Andych Moderator Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Hahaha... they would almost act like wheelie bars if he actually managed to get the front wheel up... I agree with Murdo... what a c*ck! lol
     
    Andych, Apr 24, 2018
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  17. Mike Fulcher

    Mike Fulcher Active Member

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    Yes exactly, someone had gone for a slider on the right hand side & wore a hole through the engine cover.
    & yes the fools did actually manage to Tig weld it up but got a little bit of excitement thrown in for good measure.
    I'll try & up load a photo of their efforts.
    So I'm thinking that there may be some electrical damage inside. It seems to spark to frequently for the RPM that the engine is cranking over at. I have fitted a new battery & also jumper leaded to another just to make sure the engine was spinning over fast enough.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    Mike Fulcher, Apr 25, 2018
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  18. Mike Fulcher

    Mike Fulcher Active Member

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    Here's the pic of the weld up job, & a few extra photos of the frame #'s can any one interpret Japanese? I believe these bikes were a Jap home market model that produced a bit more HP & came after the earlier tube framed bikes & were an interim measure before the alloy delta box framed Strada's. P1080448.JPG
     

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    Mike Fulcher, Apr 25, 2018
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  19. Wozza

    Wozza Active Member

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    To read Japanese text use the fee google translation app on your phone(uses camera) works about 70% of the time..
    isnt the ignition pickup on that side like the singles?
     
    Wozza, Apr 25, 2018
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  20. Frankster

    Frankster Grey Pride...Adventure before Dementia Staff Member Premium Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Hi Mike,

    Your bike looks like a VTZ250. You're correct that yours is a Japan-only model. However, they were sold in America as the VTR250K (1989-1990 I think). The original VT250F made 35HP, so the VTZ250 might have an extra pony or two, but trusting web specs can be fraught with danger (nee SRX250 specs). There's a good website (vtr250.org) that a few of us frequent. If you look there you'll find plenty of info about your bike. If you want to read a good article about the original 1983 VT250F that started it all, then click on the following link. Cheers Frank

    http://davestestsandarticles.weebly.com/uploads/4/8/4/5/4845046/mcw14may83vt250f.pdf
     
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    Frankster, Apr 25, 2018
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