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Project Bought a ZXR250C.

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by Linkin, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Top diagram show's the junction box ( 4 ) need's an AC feed from the stator ( 3 ), i'm pretty sure this will trigger the headlight relay ( 5 ) to power up (eg; when engine is running)
    The headlight relay must be a self latching relay, it only require's a pulsed power supply to keep it turned on (AC, alternating current equal's pulsed)
    Did you bypass the junction box ?
    If so you just need to tap a wire into one of the 3x AC stator wires and run it to the yellow wire from the junction box
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  2. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    That'd be it. I haven't done anything to the junction box other than open it and look at the guts, then put it back together.

    Re-reading the instructions for the SH847, it mentions that on Kawasakis with a 6 pin reg/rec plug, the white wire needs to be tapped into one of the AC stator wires for the headlight to run, so I'll do that.

    What I'm concerned about now is why a relay (there are two in the junction box) was being triggered with the ignition off and without bypassing the loom - another short? Is it gonna come and bite me in the arse again when I tap this wire? I heard the relay when disconnecting either the stator OR battery from the reg/rec

    Also after checking the headlight fuse yesterday, I checked voltage across the terminals and got a reading of 0.03v, I'm not sure if I turned the ignition off first, but if so, that would indicate a short somewhere wouldn't it?
     
  3. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    I'm not sure i'd be connecting the white wire (positive feed to battery ?) to the AC stator lead ?

    The wiring diagram doesn't show a second relay, but there's a couple of diode's there, they wont make any noise though

    The .03V is negligable, if it was over .1V or .2V then i'd be looking into it.
    With prefect clean lubricated switch contact's the aim is as close to 0V as you can get, but if there's a couple of connection's involved then you can get a slight voltage drop, dielectric grease on the cleaned terminal's and contact's can help

    Once it's all connected maybe check the amp's drawn at the battery disconnect the positive wire from the battery and put an amp gauge (or multimeter) inline between the battery + and the positive cable
    Should read 0 amp's or close to it with the ignition off
     
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  4. Wobblysauce

    Wobblysauce Active Member

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    Nice diagrams.. the others I was working off last time were in Japanese.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I was just going off memory, it's going to be one of the wires on the reg/rec plug, maybe the black with yellow stripe?

    NcnrVRu.jpg

    The whole ZXR250c service manual is available in english in our resources section, consider becoming a premium member for a small donation, it's well worth it

    https://www.2fiftycc.com/index.php?account/upgrades
     
  6. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    The wiring from your diagram from the original 6 terminal reg/rect show's the white wire goes to positive on battery, black w/yellow stripe to negative on battery and brown is the load trigger wire to allow the reg/rect to start charging.



    I've done a bit of investigating,
    i reckon it sound's like your headlight relay has gone or something inside it may have shorted.
    On Kawasaki's this can happen when the stator or reg/rect is faulty.

    Your junction box, does if have the same colour wiring as the picture you linked back a few post's and only has 4 wire's going into it?
    From the left, is it yellow, yellow w/red stripe, blue w/yellow stripe, the last one on the right is either brown or grey ?

    To bypass the headlight relay you need to join the blue w/yellow wire and the brown or grey, with the junction box having an internal fuse ,you should fit one inline between the blue w/yellow and grey wire's

    The yellow wire and the yellow w/red stripe wire could then be disconnect from the junction box and the plug insulated.

    Information from here- http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/help-diagnose-problem-234290-3.html

    Do you have a pic of your junction box ?

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  7. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    You are correct, there's nothing on the reg/rec plug to do with the headlight.

    I don't have any pics of my junction box, but it looks just like a GPX250/Ninja 250R one. I pulled it apart and got the PCB out, I did not see any fuses mounted on the board. Only the fuse holders and two NEC relays (in the top left corner). It looks just like this one: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NINJA-250-25...-EX250-EX250R-KAWASAKI-VERY-GOOD/202088787724

    The wiring diagram for the headlight circuit shows black coming from the stator - that would be the three phases which are actually black with red stripe. The other two on the connector are the water temp sensor and neutral light, there is no single black lead anywhere on the stator or its connector to the loom.

    ayrLxm1.jpg

    The diagram shows a connction where the wire changes from black to yellow and goes to the junction box, I believe this to be a tap in one of the stator wires, which sends a signal to the headlight relay, switching it on. After that, it goes through the fuse, starter circuit and ignition switch. All conditions must be met for the headlight to run.

    I bypassed the harness when installing the new stator (3x phases chopped before the connector and ran new leads directly to the reg/rec) so I am basically 100% sure that's why my headlight is out - nothing to switch the relay. The other relay is for the high beam switch and pass light.

    I believe that the clicking I was hearing with the old stator was indeed the headlight relay being switched, but the starter circuit and ignition switch still prevented it from actually turning the headlight on. It was still enough to drain the battery over a week, and the headlight still worked after that.

    I've bypassed the loom and wired the stator leads directly to the reg/rec with new wires. No tap to send a signal to the relay. That has to be it. In which case, I can simply run a wire from one of the stator wires to the corresponding connector on the junction box.
     
  8. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Yeap, sound's like a plan.
    As long as your headlight relay is working properly
     
  9. sharky

    sharky Well-Known Member

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    C model 20171026_131635.jpg
     
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  10. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Ran a wire from a stator lead to the junction box today. First thing that happened was the relay clicking the same as before. The headlight now comes on with the ignition.

    I suspect that the headlight relay is stuck closed now.

    For now I have disconnected the junction box and will see if I can order a new one, then fix the old one for a spare or sell it on.
     
  11. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    You can probably find a new relay and solder that in
     
  12. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    I have a junction box if you need one
     
  13. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I think the PCB has traces on both sides, the solder points for the relays are not accessible from their undersides, making it difficult. I will see what can be done
     
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  14. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    OK so I tried another junction box, it did not solve the problem. I even went to the trouble and expense of buying a brand new one afterwards. I now think that this issue is just caused by how the new reg/rec works, it is not switched on/off with ignition, nor does it have a 6th wire anything like that. My solution will be a toggle switch on the line between the tap from the stator lead and the junction box. If my analysis is correct, it should only be needed when starting the bike as the relay should hold closed. It could also be used as a long term theft-deterrent if the bike has to sit for any long period of time (say, for 6 to 9 months of license suspensions :oops: ). Sacrificing a battery to prevent the bike being stolen is a worthy trade off in my opinion.

    On a more exciting subject, I'm going to order an unrestricted Lixianda TCI from aliexpress, and dyno test it against the standard unit when I next get up to Tamworth (probably the next lot of drags, will miss the barry sheene though)

    I also have a ventura rack kit (bracket, bag rag and sport rack) on the way - gotta love staff discounts. It certainly pays to work for a bike shop/dealer :D
     
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  15. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Had some time today so pulled apart a junction box and got pictures for future reference.

    Rubber damper off, cover off, fuses out

    uQKN5Ul.jpg

    Flip over and remove the 4 screws

    xWracWi.jpg

    Pull the back cover off. Note it is asymmetrical.

    nLQJ1ic.jpg

    A look at the board. Some water/corrosion marks, but this unit is not faulty.

    X1UpMBu.jpg

    Pull the top cover off and mind the rubber seal along the seam

    amaVxlp.jpg

    HiRtcxW.jpg

    What's under all the plastic. Your headlight relays, diodes, and fuse points

    MntrUqY.jpg

    WB3udf4.jpg

    3FZ0VOI.jpg
     
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  16. my67xr

    my67xr Bike Enthusiast Staff Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    Those MR301-N9 Nec relay's were specifically made for Kawasaki and would be hard to track down.
    There are relay's that can be substituted, an MR301-9HSL and a MR301-12HSL
    The 9 and the 12 in the part number's are the latching voltage's, the second relay would be a better option as it's rated to handle more amp's
    You could also use a newer solid state relay if you matched up the spec's

    If you want to replace one, you will need to use some solder wick to desolder the terminal's,
    and then you might need to straighten the terminal's before trying to remove the relay as they may be clinched (each terminal is twisted to 45° max to retain it on the circuit board before soldering)
     
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  17. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    I might pull apart the new junction box I got from Japan and see what relays it has inside it. They sound different when switching I know that much.
     
  18. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    The Lixianda TCI unit arrived yesterday. I fitted it and rode the bike to work. I believe it does start easier as claimed, as the motor fires nearly instantly after hitting the starter, but doesn't idle. The carbs still need to be synced so I reserve judgement until then.

    As for the claims of improved power, I felt there was a small but noticeable difference in acceleration below 8,000 rpm. I haven't had the chance to rev it out yet though, but I don't really want to test to see if it has a rev limiter or not. It also appears that for the same cruising speed (60km/h in 5th gear) the engine RPM is slightly lower.

    Next time I get up to Tamworth I will get on the dyno and do a proper comparison.
     
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  19. maelstrom

    maelstrom LiteTek Staff Member Premium Member 250cc Vendor Contributing Member

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    Hi @Linkin when you get this sorted you could write a Tech How-to fit Shindengen Reg/Rec for ZXR owners. Sorry, I have been too lazy to get into your article because I know you two can get it sorted anyway.
     
  20. Linkin

    Linkin The Mechanic Premium Member Contributing Member Dirty Wheel Club

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    Of course
     

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