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Project The Neglected Honda project...

Discussion in 'Your 250cc Projects' started by Joker, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Sooo... did I score today, barely felt a dent in the wallet for this. She is a 2006 CBF250 with just over 12,000 kms on the clock. Apart from someone bashing her around once she looks like she's had a moderately good life.

    IMG_1909.JPG
    IMG_1911.JPG
     
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  2. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    We weren't able to start her on inspection (I'd say she was close to starting though) but she sounds like she has plenty of compression. Missing the sprocket cover, the dash is cracked, one fork seal gone and there's a bit of pitting rust here and there from sitting a couple of years.

    IMG_1912.JPG IMG_1913.JPG IMG_1914.JPG

    Engine area looks pretty good though, clean with no leaks anywhere I could find.
    IMG_1915.JPG
     
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  3. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    Sounds like a good.score, these are quite a popular learner bikes and fetch good coin in good nick
     
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  4. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    So I spent an hour or two cranking her a bit, messing with the fuel lines, testing spark etc.

    1. Has spark. Plug is pretty much brand new but the top of it came out bent so I should probably replace it. I held onto the rubber part and got a zap so she may be leaking current somewhere. Nothing wrong with the coils/CDI etc at least!

    IMG_1917.JPG

    2. She's getting fuel into the chamber. Not only did it backfire a couple of times when I hooked her up to the Fizzer battery but the plug came out wet when I pulled her out. No carbon either so looks pretty healthy.

    3. Oil is ok. I smelt it on inspection and it looked like it had just had an oil change. No burning smell, oil wasn't black was pretty clear actually.

    So with all of that, she should start right? Nope. Cranks, backfires a few pops like she wants to go but isn't quite there. So my next port of call was the Carby.

    Carby was actually almost "clean as a whistle" so the expression goes. Pulled off the bowl, looking pretty good in there...

    IMG_1921.JPG

    Pulled out the pilot screw, surprise surprise partially blocked. Was at 3.5 turns out too probably a little rich. Pulled out the two jets and main jet was clear but the smaller one was blocked. Pulled a piece of wire off my wire brush and scrubbed them all out gently anyway, including all the holes I could find.

    Next I was fiddling with the plunger, I think I may have found the issue. Does this look stretched to anyone else? Me thinks it's buggered and I may need just a new diaphragm... here's hoping. @kiffsta what do you think mate?

    IMG_1922.JPG

    The guy said it stalled on him when riding once and he was able to push start it and get it home, then it has pretty much sat. He said he started it again with a mate but it took them a long time to push start it. I'm guessing the plunger is not operating correctly hence the difficulty. It may have got jammed somehow and stretched out when he was riding that first time. He told me that there was "too many wires" for him to open up the carby, made me chuckle because I think I unplugged one or two things.

    So... going to look at replacing that diaphragm, I can hardly fault it anywhere else. Also have to get a new battery as it didn't come with one, I think I'll run off the fizzer battery until I know she runs so I can limit investment. Fork seal will come later, along with some sort of cleanup of the exhaust/dash and the cosmetics.

    To be continued!
     
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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  5. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    Nice pick up mate, she looks tidy and probably not a lot to spend to get her ready for the road.
    A call to your local wrecker will probably score you a sprocket cover and maybe a dash shroud?

    Some steel wool will tidy those forks up easily.
    Think you have the makings of a good bike.....well done :thumb_ups:

    And to finish up.....a new can would add that extra "bling"
     
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  6. kiffsta

    kiffsta Senior Member

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    That diaphragm looks okay to me, I reckon you reassemble it and it should go, make sure you drain the tank , so the jets don't get blocked again
     
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  7. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Not sure what to do with the can actually. The pipe from the can itself to the header is pretty rusty so will need a decent resto. Maybe I can pick up a cheap can from somewhere, seems to be bolt on.
     
  8. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Looks to be a good start for a resto.
    Check your valve clearances if it still wont start after carby clean.
    Diaphram looks ok.
     
  9. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    Check out xcite site, sure Omar has something that might fit your bike.
     
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  10. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    So given her quite a bit of cranking this morning. She speeds up at points like she wants to start but then backfires like heck and still a no go. Next step has to be valve clearances. Doing a bit of a reading apparently these bikes are a bit prone to valve clearance issues so I may be losing just enough compression to stop her going.

    This bike is ridiculously simple to work on though compared to the FZR. It's a nice change.
     
  11. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Well I had to laugh. Popped the camshaft cover and checked the clearances.... all out of spec! And here I was thinking I'd fix it with a new diaphragm at first!

    The manual says "ADM" and "ESC" can someone confirm which is which? From what I measured I think "ADM" is intake and "ESC" is exhaust...? If that's right, intake is 0.12mm and exhaust is 0.15mm.

    Both intakes measured at 0.13 so a bit tight. One of the exhaust was 0.05mm so really tight and the other one is below 0.03 (lowest my gauges go) so very tight if any clearance at all. Explains why she won't start, all the valves are being held open too long in the cycle.

    Does anyone know the tolerance limit on the valve clearances? normally you get something like 0.14-0.16 or something but these are pretty specifically stated at 0.12 and 0.15.

    Here are some piccies from this morning.

    Top comes off:

    IMG_1926.JPG

    Finding TDC:

    IMG_1927.JPG

    Checking lobe positions to ensure compression stroke:

    IMG_1929.JPG

    Tying off the cam chain so it doesn't get lost.

    IMG_1932.JPG

    Pulling out the CCT to slacken the cam chain:

    IMG_1931.JPG

    Checkin' the clearances:

    IMG_1930.JPG

    Full disassembly of valve top with shims removed etc

    IMG_1936.JPG

    All the bits and bobs. Shim shopping next, I have a bunch of shims leftover but I think they're all way too small. At $5 each will be a relatively cheap investment (provided I get the sizes right first try haha, need to confirm the specs first!)

    IMG_1935.JPG
     
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  12. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    You have been a busy lad....she'll be up and running in no time :thumb_ups:
     
  13. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Yeh well all that only took me about an hour... so much easier with one cylinder and no fairings LOL
     
  14. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    correction: Intakes are 0.13 so they're slightly on the loose side to the 0.12mm spec. They're probably OK.
     
  15. jnz92

    jnz92 Active Member Premium Member Contributing Member

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    A hundredth is well within margin of error. Wouldn't worry about it unless it's noisy.
     
  16. Phil

    Phil Senior Member Contributing Member

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    Something to be said about "Nakeds" :D
     
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  17. Murdo

    Murdo The Good Doctor Staff Member Contributing Member Ride and Events Crew

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    Intake clearances will be fine, exhaust are way too tight.
     
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  18. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Question guys... was reading through the manual on the timing and it suggested lining up the "intake" and "exhaust" marks on the camshafts parallel to the top of the engine. Now that's easy enough done I guess, but it doesn't talk about number of pins between the top of the cams. What I plan to do is take all the slack out of the exhaust side when I put the cams in, line it up as best I can (by eye which seems a little ambiguous) before installing the CCT and taking up the slack. Will turn the bike over manually a few times just to see if it sorta stays constant for the compression stroke.

    I just felt like it was a bit of a "loose" process when the FZR specifically depicted the number of pins between the top teeth on the camshaft gears etc....

    Any thoughts?
     
  19. Aaron81

    Aaron81 Active Member

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    Mate I think you have scored well :). Your little conundrum reminded me of when I first got my fzr400, she would wind over sometimes back fire almost exactly like your situation, after quite sometime checking everything I could before having to remove the top cover. Long story short it turned out that the bolts holding the cam sprockets in place were a little loose and well one was missing. After 3 days laying on my back I finally got the bolt from the bottom of the engine replaced all 4 cam bolts and she fired up straight away. they were loose enough as to throw the timing out just enough to not run but not far enough to do any valve damage.
     
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  20. Joker

    Joker See "about me" for contact details. Contributing Member

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    Everything else on this bike looks pretty good, couldn't find any missing bits and the engine is so clean and "new" compared to the Fizz so here's hoping I don't have something stuck somewhere in the engine!!

    Shims should be delivered today, new battery by the end of the week... I'm getting a bit excited!!
     

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